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welcome back everybody to epic voyages

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radio online here at inception radio

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network comm I am your host this evening

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Laurel Blythe tag I'm the vice president

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and New York State Director for epic

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voyagers and check out our website at

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epic voyagers dot-com we have a youtube

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channel with several hundred hours of

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presentations there and some of our

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archive shows going back for many years

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and of course inception radio network

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always keeps our archived webcast here I

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think they go back to June of 2011 so

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all you have to do is go to inception

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radio network go to shows go to archives

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click on our icon there for epic voyages

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radio and take your pick so we're

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getting pretty close to the end of the

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year here and what we've got tonight for

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a show back in April I interviewed Mike

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Campbell the author of Amelia Earhart

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the truth at last a book that compiles I

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guess it's about 500 pages or so of

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information compiling evidence and

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eyewitness testimonies the work of many

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people over 60 or 70 years all of it

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pertaining to what actually happened to

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Amelia Earhart Fred Noonan and her

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Electra on July 2nd 1937 some people

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think that it crashed in the ocean some

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people think that whatever happened to

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the plane that she actually wound up

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coming back to the US and living

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incognito as someone and it's beginning

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to look like the real oh I forgot to

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mention the nickim Ororo hypothesis and

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then it's beginning to look as I was

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going to say that the real story is

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likely to have been that she touched

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down on an atoll in the marshall islands

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and the plane was slightly damaged for

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at noon and was injured there's

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eyewitness testimony of a young Pacific

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Islander who actually treated Noonan's

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head injury on border ship

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Amelia Earhart and Fred were taken to

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Saipan where they eventually died and

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there's a lot of detail that supports

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that eyewitness testimony some of it

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from very highly decorated officers in

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the US military so that's what we're

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going to talk about tonight but

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tonight's focus is going to be the newly

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recovered evidence from a toll from

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Milly a toll that may actually finally

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confirm the rest of the eyewitness

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testimony and and reports from the

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Islanders the the bottom line I've

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explained that they went off course

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landed off of Milly atoll and the

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marshals picked up by a Japanese fishing

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vessel taken to I hope I'm saying this

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right shall you eat and then quasi lean

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and then finally to Saipan the Elector

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the airplane itself was strapped to a

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Japanese ship and also hauled to Saipan

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where it was hidden in a remote hangar

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there at the southwest end of the island

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and was actually rediscovered in July of

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1944 by the invading US Marines this is

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more eyewitness testimony so tonight

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we're talking to as I said Mike Campbell

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but we're also welcoming for the first

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time on the show Dix pink Richards pink

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he is a man of all seasons a teacher a

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captain a diver a manufacturer of

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premium quality aluminum boat kits for

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do-it-yourselfers and commercial boat

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builders and he's also an Earhart

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researcher on his own dime not asking

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for financial support from anyone else

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to pursue to pursue his research in the

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same way that Mike Campbell does

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so dick recently collaborated on a

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documentary which revealed newly

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discovered artifacts from Milly atoll

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and confirming some of the eyewitness

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testimony that appears in Mike's books

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he also let's see Tarte to at least two

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experts in that documentary about the

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metal parts that he recovered so tonight

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that's pretty much what we're going to

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talk about is those parts and the

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process for confirming that they are

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actually from the Electra and related to

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Earhart's last trip so gentlemen Mike

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dick welcome to epic voyages radio thank

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you very much Laura good to be with you

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Laurel thanks a lot for having us again

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really good to be with you and thank you

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for all of your support in all of your

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concern about this Earhart thing it's so

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it's such a misunderstood piece of

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American history

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you when you let off the show and you

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talked about what happened basically

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that they went down on 'add millie they

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were picked up by the japanese taken to

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jail a width into Khwaja lane then to

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Saipan you talked about that as if that

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was a affect in fact it is a fact but

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you are one of the very few people in

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the world that that actually that

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actually believes that as a fact you

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know the vast majority of people in our

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country especially since we're talking

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about one of our greatest American

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citizens of all time still believes that

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the Earhart matter is a complete mystery

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and that it will never be solved this is

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the this is the typical belief of the

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person on the street if they've ever

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heard of her at all

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secondarily too that if they if they've

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ever really paid any attention at all to

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the press and what the press is saying

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they will think that she landed at

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nickim Aurora which you mentioned this

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is the overwhelming a belief that the

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press and the media is trying to

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convince people happen

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since 1989 when Tiger made their first

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trip over to Nick Amara we'll get into

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all that later but again yeah thank you

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so much for having us

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absolutely dick say something about

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yourself and how you got into this line

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of research well you know it all started

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for me on a trip to the Marshall Islands

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when I was selling some aluminum boat

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kits I was first approached by Ramsey

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rhymers who has become my marshalese

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brother and I was adopted basically into

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the culture I went down there to teach

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the youth how to build aluminum boats my

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aluminum boat kits and one of the days

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when I was sitting it with Ramsey and we

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were at senator Toni two brooms house

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whose minister to the president right

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now and we were talking about all the

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different war relics that are sunk in

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the lagoons in the Marshall Islands and

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we were talking about different aircraft

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and ships and and I just happened to say

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well didn't Amelia Earhart disappear in

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this part of the world and at the end of

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one of the tables were sitting at was an

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erosion and owning king who said yeah

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when I was a little boy she landed on

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our Island and my uncle watched her for

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two days and I you know you can imagine

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I just said that's yeah right I did I

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didn't believe him because I just

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thought what everybody else thought she

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crashed and sank in the ocean right

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that's the story I was told well after I

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got chewed out by Ramsey and Tony for

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laughing at a king I well I'm sorry

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you know please go on tell me the story

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and that's basically where it started

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for me I just heard these things from

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the trips that I'd made down there this

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first trip I made down there was about

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five and a half years ago when I then

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this it wasn't on the first trip this is

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probably the second trip when I heard

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that and so the next time I went down I

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took a video camera with me I started

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recording some of these conversations

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and I mean that's how it all started for

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me all I'm trying to do is just tell the

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Marshall Islands story I mean it's this

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is just part of their history they are

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very good with their oral history of

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what has happened in the Marshall

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Islands they have postage stamps with

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Amelia Earhart's aircraft on them and

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it's just part of their history they

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know that it happened so that's

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basically this was handed to me I didn't

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go out searching familiar Earhart or

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anything else I mean like I said five

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years ago if you were to ask me about a

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military heart I would just say

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something like well wasn't she the one

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that crashed and sank in the Pacific

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Ocean trying to fly around the world and

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now after hearing the Marshall Islands

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story from all these different people

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and then starting to meet different

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researchers like Mike and Carol Dow is

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who I first talked to and just talking

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to different people that have researched

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this that have so much knowledge I just

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you know I I started putting these

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basically these interviews together and

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next thing you know I organized my first

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expedition on Martin Daly's vessel down

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to Milly and ended up by the time it was

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all done I've been down to Milly on four

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separate expeditions I can't even

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imagine what the odds are that guy from

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wash you're in Washington State right

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yeah I'm in Melbourne in Washington as I

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teach it Mount Vernon High School I

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can't imagine what the odds are that a

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fellow from Washington State would

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happen to be over the Marshall Islands

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and this specific topic would come up

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and you'd have a background in aluminum

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parts on

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Vettel's of different kinds and you'd

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find yourself doing this I just think

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that's remarkably serendipitous it was a

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it was quite an adventure and it still

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is quite an adventure I mean it goes on

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it's it's it's just been an amazing

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chapter in my life I have really enjoyed

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this well what do you mind telling us

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first of all I want to remind everybody

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that were we're talking to Mike Campbell

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and Richard or dick [\h__\h] about newly

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recovered evidence from mili atoll over

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in the Marshall Islands related to

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the actual disposition of Amelia

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Earhart's final leg of her last flight

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and I believe in a little while we'll be

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joined by one of their colleagues who is

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an expert involved in connecting these

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artifacts with X with other experts and

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forensic analysis labs that may actually

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be trying to vet these but dick what

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tell us exactly what it was that you

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recovered and when did you find them on

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Mele atoll and I'm sorry interrupting

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myself here something that I learned

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today and getting ready for this that I

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did not realize before and I'm totally

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not educated about the eight holes and

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the islands over in the in the Pacific

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but mili atoll is actually it looks like

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it's almost like a bracelet the the

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beach itself is a bracelet and on the

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outside of the bracelet is the ocean and

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inside of the bracelet is a lagoon

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because there was a volcano there and

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when the volcano went off what was left

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of the caldera filled up with water and

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so it's really like a ring of beach

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that's around a central a very large

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central Lagoon right basically you're

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correct what happened is the volcano

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became extinct it collapsed back into

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the ocean and the coral rate grew at the

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same rate that the atoll was sinking

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back into the ocean and so what you've

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got is you've got this coral atoll which

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you're right Amelia toll is about fifty

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to sixty miles across from north to

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south

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so the lagoon is immense it and the

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Marshall Islands is the largest Atoll

273
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:03,390
nation on the planet and the there's

274
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thousands of miles in the Marshall

275
00:13:09,230 --> 00:13:07,170
Islands the Marshall Islands compose is

276
00:13:11,780 --> 00:13:09,240
composed of a million square miles of

277
00:13:15,140 --> 00:13:11,790
area yet the landmass is only about the

278
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size of Rhode Island so land is precious

279
00:13:20,290 --> 00:13:18,480
there and thousands of islands they're

280
00:13:23,330 --> 00:13:20,300
not that many of them that are really

281
00:13:27,500 --> 00:13:23,340
inhabited a lot of these still today are

282
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:27,510
very uninhabited islands Wow those of

283
00:13:31,010 --> 00:13:29,130
you that are actually online with us in

284
00:13:34,970 --> 00:13:31,020
the chat room at inception radio network

285
00:13:39,380 --> 00:13:34,980
I am posting links and pictures images

286
00:13:40,670 --> 00:13:39,390
maps things that will help back up some

287
00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:40,680
of the things that we're talking about

288
00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:43,530
tonight so if you are handy to a browser

289
00:13:48,230 --> 00:13:45,510
you might want to join us at inception

290
00:13:50,350 --> 00:13:48,240
radio network comm go to the chat room

291
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:50,360
and take a look at some of the

292
00:13:56,930 --> 00:13:53,370
illustrations I'm putting up there so

293
00:13:59,330 --> 00:13:56,940
dick what did you find there what

294
00:14:01,130 --> 00:13:59,340
happened on the on the expedition when

295
00:14:03,650 --> 00:14:01,140
we came down we had like I mentioned

296
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:03,660
earlier Martin Daly Indies trader is the

297
00:14:09,890 --> 00:14:06,810
founder of Indies trader we were able to

298
00:14:12,410 --> 00:14:09,900
take his vessel to windward from Majuro

299
00:14:14,870 --> 00:14:12,420
and from Majuro on Majuro at ulta

300
00:14:17,750 --> 00:14:14,880
million toll it's about 80 miles so we

301
00:14:21,230 --> 00:14:17,760
came down in two vessels the windward

302
00:14:24,650 --> 00:14:21,240
and the trader - and we had a crew of

303
00:14:28,310 --> 00:14:24,660
about 30 people in all with some local

304
00:14:31,130 --> 00:14:28,320
natives and I had several metal

305
00:14:33,830 --> 00:14:31,140
detectors and we went out in groups with

306
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:33,840
picks shovels metal detectors and we

307
00:14:41,090 --> 00:14:36,810
combed the whole island at the location

308
00:14:43,940 --> 00:14:41,100
where I was told exactly where she came

309
00:14:46,700 --> 00:14:43,950
down from the story that jarrell and

310
00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:46,710
Lajja Juan told and we basically just

311
00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:49,650
started combing all Island over and on

312
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:52,110
that island I mean any of the islands in

313
00:14:56,540 --> 00:14:53,610
the Pacific what you've got is you've

314
00:14:58,850 --> 00:14:56,550
just got a lot of debris that has

315
00:15:01,070 --> 00:14:58,860
floated up you know tons and tons of

316
00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:01,080
shoes and medicine bottles they're just

317
00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:03,210
everywhere and you can see those in in

318
00:15:07,580 --> 00:15:05,730
my documentary that all the things we

319
00:15:09,530 --> 00:15:07,590
got from the metal detectors were little

320
00:15:11,540 --> 00:15:09,540
metal bands on medicine bottles and and

321
00:15:15,170 --> 00:15:11,550
little things like that that would float

322
00:15:18,020 --> 00:15:15,180
in and occasionally we saw some some

323
00:15:20,900 --> 00:15:18,030
other pieces of metal that that may have

324
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:20,910
been from some of the people on that

325
00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:23,490
island that harvested the copra nobody

326
00:15:28,370 --> 00:15:25,290
on these small little islands that we

327
00:15:30,620 --> 00:15:28,380
set out to there wasn't anybody there

328
00:15:32,930 --> 00:15:30,630
that had lived on that Island outside of

329
00:15:34,370 --> 00:15:32,940
the people that would harvest the

330
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:34,380
natives that would harvest the copra and

331
00:15:36,860 --> 00:15:35,850
that's the dried white meat in the

332
00:15:40,970 --> 00:15:36,870
coconut

333
00:15:43,700 --> 00:15:40,980
and so anyway we we just started every

334
00:15:45,710 --> 00:15:43,710
time we get a ping we'd dig it up and we

335
00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:45,720
went through and by the end of the day

336
00:15:50,570 --> 00:15:48,510
the different groups we came back in and

337
00:15:52,490 --> 00:15:50,580
we had one piece that was the most

338
00:15:57,920 --> 00:15:52,500
interesting piece that really set me off

339
00:16:00,680 --> 00:15:57,930
at first was this oval-shaped metal tag

340
00:16:03,170 --> 00:16:00,690
that you know I didn't think too much of

341
00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:03,180
it to begin with I'm not a hit by any

342
00:16:10,100 --> 00:16:07,170
means of forensic airplane person that

343
00:16:12,740 --> 00:16:10,110
can you know exactly tell you what it is

344
00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:12,750
I'm looking at I had to do that once I

345
00:16:18,170 --> 00:16:16,290
came back but I picked up this piece of

346
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:18,180
metal actually Martin Daly was the one

347
00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:20,250
that got the ping on this one and dug it

348
00:16:23,390 --> 00:16:21,450
up and brought it back to where we were

349
00:16:28,190 --> 00:16:23,400
wrote down the spot where he found it

350
00:16:29,750 --> 00:16:28,200
and it was the same size as an APU cover

351
00:16:31,970 --> 00:16:29,760
and that's initially what we thought

352
00:16:35,810 --> 00:16:31,980
this piece of aluminum was is an APU

353
00:16:38,750 --> 00:16:35,820
cover plate and it is for those who are

354
00:16:41,690 --> 00:16:38,760
not Lockheed experts for an 8-year view

355
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:41,700
is an auxiliary power unit explain what

356
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:44,370
what is an auxiliary power unit on one

357
00:16:48,050 --> 00:16:46,290
wing one aircraft come back in and they

358
00:16:49,940 --> 00:16:48,060
they run a short power cord to and

359
00:16:51,860 --> 00:16:49,950
basically well I but I'm speaking marine

360
00:16:53,330 --> 00:16:51,870
here but an airplane you you bring a

361
00:16:54,860 --> 00:16:53,340
power cord over and you plug in you keep

362
00:16:56,900 --> 00:16:54,870
your batteries up to charge and

363
00:16:59,660 --> 00:16:56,910
everything that's inside an aircraft

364
00:17:01,340 --> 00:16:59,670
it's it's up to a full charge on this

365
00:17:02,810 --> 00:17:01,350
plug that plugs it's like plug in an

366
00:17:05,330 --> 00:17:02,820
extension cord into your airplane and

367
00:17:08,420 --> 00:17:05,340
this is called an auxiliary power unit

368
00:17:10,820 --> 00:17:08,430
plug in and it is an oval-shaped about

369
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:10,830
the same size as this plate so you know

370
00:17:18,650 --> 00:17:12,650
initially that's what we thought it was

371
00:17:21,050 --> 00:17:18,660
but you know it it it it would tend more

372
00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:21,060
and we're right in the in the research

373
00:17:27,260 --> 00:17:23,760
of this it would tend more to possibly

374
00:17:28,790 --> 00:17:27,270
be a little inspection plate of some

375
00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:28,800
type the thing that makes this piece

376
00:17:35,270 --> 00:17:32,640
very unique is that it has the reddish

377
00:17:37,340 --> 00:17:35,280
orange paint and now this is after 77

378
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:37,350
years of fading in the Sun and being on

379
00:17:45,980 --> 00:17:40,890
a beach and in underneath coconut trees

380
00:17:48,620 --> 00:17:45,990
but this paint appears to be very close

381
00:17:49,700 --> 00:17:48,630
if not the same color as Amelia

382
00:17:53,180 --> 00:17:49,710
Earhart's

383
00:17:55,580 --> 00:17:53,190
paint on her aircraft she had red on the

384
00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:55,590
leading edges of her wings and what

385
00:17:59,389 --> 00:17:57,090
we're going to what we're doing is in

386
00:18:01,669 --> 00:17:59,399
the forensic process of trying to

387
00:18:04,490 --> 00:18:01,679
diagnose all this trying to get some of

388
00:18:07,490 --> 00:18:04,500
the original paint and doing some

389
00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:07,500
analysis to make sure then we can try

390
00:18:14,899 --> 00:18:11,600
and see if this is the exact same paint

391
00:18:18,289 --> 00:18:14,909
the APU and I've put a picture up here

392
00:18:20,630 --> 00:18:18,299
on the taproom so everybody can see it

393
00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:20,640
it looks to me I'm sure it's not the

394
00:18:24,230 --> 00:18:22,110
same size but it looks to me a lot like

395
00:18:26,419 --> 00:18:24,240
a dog tag that that the military guys

396
00:18:28,130 --> 00:18:26,429
wear around their neck well it's a bit

397
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:28,140
bigger than that yes it's kind of the

398
00:18:31,549 --> 00:18:30,330
same shape as that and you can see

399
00:18:33,769 --> 00:18:31,559
there's some pretty good wrinkles in it

400
00:18:35,180 --> 00:18:33,779
too it's had it's been it's got 45

401
00:18:36,860 --> 00:18:35,190
degree wrinkles across it which is

402
00:18:39,409 --> 00:18:36,870
pretty consistent what happens to

403
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:39,419
airplane aluminum when it's been under

404
00:18:44,630 --> 00:18:42,210
under severe stress so it does have some

405
00:18:47,389 --> 00:18:44,640
severe wrinkles and cranks in it and the

406
00:18:49,820 --> 00:18:47,399
paint is only left it's not worn off on

407
00:18:51,649 --> 00:18:49,830
about half of one side of it is all the

408
00:18:54,830 --> 00:18:51,659
paint that's left on it but it's enough

409
00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:54,840
to tell that it is a red paint but that

410
00:19:01,100 --> 00:18:56,970
was the piece I brought back after the

411
00:19:02,870 --> 00:19:01,110
first exposition expedition and what

412
00:19:05,060 --> 00:19:02,880
became pretty interesting was there was

413
00:19:07,700 --> 00:19:05,070
a fairly small pile of pieces of

414
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:07,710
aluminum and and I wasn't sure what was

415
00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:09,330
going to happen on this first trip I

416
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:11,130
mean I was just kind of putting a bunch

417
00:19:13,669 --> 00:19:12,450
of things together and hey we're going

418
00:19:15,830 --> 00:19:13,679
to go out and look for a million Hart

419
00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:15,840
we're gonna you know you know I was

420
00:19:20,450 --> 00:19:17,520
listening to some of the old people's

421
00:19:23,299 --> 00:19:20,460
stories and I still wasn't absolutely

422
00:19:25,970 --> 00:19:23,309
100% convinced of this whole thing yet

423
00:19:28,669 --> 00:19:25,980
because it was pretty early on and by

424
00:19:31,010 --> 00:19:28,679
the time we ended up getting through

425
00:19:36,580 --> 00:19:31,020
this and then coming back and talking to

426
00:19:39,669 --> 00:19:36,590
Jim Hayden's is a an incredible airplane

427
00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:39,679
he's a walking encyclopedia of aircraft

428
00:19:46,310 --> 00:19:44,130
and he's on one of the photographs one

429
00:19:48,289 --> 00:19:46,320
of the pieces that I left behind which

430
00:19:50,299 --> 00:19:48,299
is this dust cover do you have another

431
00:19:52,789 --> 00:19:50,309
photograph of there I do and I'm getting

432
00:19:56,260 --> 00:19:52,799
ready to put it up there and now this

433
00:19:58,370 --> 00:19:56,270
this piece is both these pieces are very

434
00:20:02,540 --> 00:19:58,380
consistent with what would have been on

435
00:20:05,150 --> 00:20:02,550
a Lockheed Electra and this piece now

436
00:20:08,180 --> 00:20:05,160
is what we believe to be a dust cover

437
00:20:10,300 --> 00:20:08,190
off the Goodyear air wheel and that's

438
00:20:13,370 --> 00:20:10,310
what Amelia Earhart had on her aircraft

439
00:20:16,820 --> 00:20:13,380
was a Goodyear air wheel and this is one

440
00:20:19,270 --> 00:20:16,830
of the parts that had felt glued to the

441
00:20:24,050 --> 00:20:19,280
back side of it and it kept a lot of

442
00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:24,060
debris from unimproved runways because

443
00:20:29,180 --> 00:20:26,130
she had huge tires on that plane for

444
00:20:32,270 --> 00:20:29,190
unimproved runways and this kept dirt

445
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:32,280
dirt and small rocks and pebbles out of

446
00:20:39,350 --> 00:20:34,530
the brake system that was on the brakes

447
00:20:41,810 --> 00:20:39,360
of that Goodyear air wheel so I of

448
00:20:46,850 --> 00:20:41,820
course went back on the next expedition

449
00:20:50,420 --> 00:20:46,860
and and retrieved that piece and brought

450
00:20:53,420 --> 00:20:50,430
it back and and that's when I all of a

451
00:20:55,700 --> 00:20:53,430
sudden realized hey this we are we're

452
00:20:57,290 --> 00:20:55,710
really onto something here and of course

453
00:20:58,580 --> 00:20:57,300
I had a few more interviews that I had

454
00:21:00,910 --> 00:20:58,590
to get that was when I went down and I

455
00:21:02,870 --> 00:21:00,920
got Reverend Elijah one the son of

456
00:21:04,370 --> 00:21:02,880
Olajuwon that witnessed the airplane

457
00:21:08,630 --> 00:21:04,380
come down when I actually got his

458
00:21:10,790 --> 00:21:08,640
testimony on videotape well now since

459
00:21:13,070 --> 00:21:10,800
we're talking about this I was able to

460
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:13,080
take a look at that documentary that

461
00:21:19,910 --> 00:21:16,650
shows you doing all of this on Millie

462
00:21:22,370 --> 00:21:19,920
and talking with these natives and

463
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:22,380
pointing to some of the other debris and

464
00:21:26,990 --> 00:21:24,650
photos that you took of this stuff

465
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:27,000
Institue before you picked it up and

466
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:29,850
collected it and I want you at some

467
00:21:35,300 --> 00:21:32,000
point to talk about what looks like

468
00:21:36,890 --> 00:21:35,310
bicycle tires inner tubes for bicycle

469
00:21:39,020 --> 00:21:36,900
tires I know that's not what it is but I

470
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:39,030
want you to say something about that but

471
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:40,530
first of all is there some sort of a

472
00:21:45,860 --> 00:21:42,450
link that people could use to take a

473
00:21:48,770 --> 00:21:45,870
look at that documentary amelia earhart

474
00:21:50,090 --> 00:21:48,780
movie.com is a link we've got and you

475
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:50,100
can actually actually buy that

476
00:21:55,370 --> 00:21:54,090
documentary if you want to it but that

477
00:21:57,140 --> 00:21:55,380
sounds that's the link that that's going

478
00:22:01,520 --> 00:21:57,150
to be under is Amelia Earhart movie.com

479
00:22:03,290 --> 00:22:01,530
okay okay and yeah I mean there was just

480
00:22:05,270 --> 00:22:03,300
a lot of different things really that we

481
00:22:08,540 --> 00:22:05,280
looked at and saw throughout the course

482
00:22:11,450 --> 00:22:08,550
of this say this is still a whole unveil

483
00:22:13,460 --> 00:22:11,460
at this this story is unraveling as we

484
00:22:15,290 --> 00:22:13,470
go where we're just more stuff is coming

485
00:22:15,950 --> 00:22:15,300
up all the time that we're we're looking

486
00:22:18,739 --> 00:22:15,960
at

487
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:18,749
and I'm probably going to be going down

488
00:22:24,970 --> 00:22:21,330
and doing another search I mean if we

489
00:22:28,700 --> 00:22:24,980
found some of these things with fairly

490
00:22:31,009 --> 00:22:28,710
inexpensive metal detectors and stuff

491
00:22:33,590 --> 00:22:31,019
who knows there we may be going down

492
00:22:37,580 --> 00:22:33,600
there with Mike's getting ready to go

493
00:22:39,889 --> 00:22:37,590
aren't you Mike yeah I'm getting ready

494
00:22:41,419 --> 00:22:39,899
to bring Mike in shift I think we're

495
00:22:43,789 --> 00:22:41,429
having a little bit of background noise

496
00:22:45,769 --> 00:22:43,799
from your connection so our producer is

497
00:22:46,789 --> 00:22:45,779
going to get offline with you and talk

498
00:22:50,450 --> 00:22:46,799
to you about that and in the meantime

499
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:50,460
I'm going to talk to Mike there are so

500
00:22:54,889 --> 00:22:53,369
many conjectures I'm not even a column

501
00:22:58,669 --> 00:22:54,899
theories and I went through a little

502
00:23:00,680 --> 00:22:58,679
list of them when we started about what

503
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:00,690
happened to her

504
00:23:06,049 --> 00:23:03,450
you know what Laurel I think that before

505
00:23:08,350 --> 00:23:06,059
we get to that okay I think it's

506
00:23:12,230 --> 00:23:08,360
important for the listener to understand

507
00:23:15,259 --> 00:23:12,240
okay that nobody here is making any

508
00:23:17,269 --> 00:23:15,269
absolute claim that this is that these

509
00:23:19,129 --> 00:23:17,279
pieces came from Amelia Earhart's

510
00:23:21,919 --> 00:23:19,139
airplane okay that's not what this

511
00:23:24,710 --> 00:23:21,929
that's not what's going on here there's

512
00:23:27,169 --> 00:23:24,720
a strong possibility I believe that it

513
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:27,179
very well could be from her airplane

514
00:23:30,919 --> 00:23:29,369
that's because first of all there's no

515
00:23:34,070 --> 00:23:30,929
records at all there's been research

516
00:23:37,850 --> 00:23:34,080
done that shows that there hasn't been

517
00:23:40,909 --> 00:23:37,860
any recorded aircraft crashes in the

518
00:23:45,139 --> 00:23:40,919
area of berry Island or Bar Island B ARR

519
00:23:47,899 --> 00:23:45,149
ye near where of the Electra came down

520
00:23:50,779 --> 00:23:47,909
there is no indication that any aircraft

521
00:23:55,159 --> 00:23:50,789
was ever crashed in that area which is a

522
00:23:57,049 --> 00:23:55,169
very strong positive sign that if it

523
00:23:58,820 --> 00:23:57,059
wasn't any other aircraft then they

524
00:24:00,889 --> 00:23:58,830
could have been the Electra where these

525
00:24:05,690 --> 00:24:00,899
things came but we are not making any

526
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:05,700
smoking gun claims here so much more has

527
00:24:12,139 --> 00:24:08,129
to be done with these artifacts to

528
00:24:14,659 --> 00:24:12,149
determine you know the exactly what what

529
00:24:18,259 --> 00:24:14,669
their status is what the chances are

530
00:24:21,109 --> 00:24:18,269
what the absolute you know the facts are

531
00:24:23,090 --> 00:24:21,119
about the odds about where they came

532
00:24:25,549 --> 00:24:23,100
from okay so that's what's going on and

533
00:24:29,420 --> 00:24:25,559
that's why our friend les Kinney he's

534
00:24:31,580 --> 00:24:29,430
been working on this trying to ascertain

535
00:24:34,250 --> 00:24:31,590
a little bit more about the

536
00:24:36,770 --> 00:24:34,260
possibilities of where or you know what

537
00:24:40,370 --> 00:24:36,780
other planes or what where else these

538
00:24:43,340 --> 00:24:40,380
artifacts may have come because as we

539
00:24:46,670 --> 00:24:43,350
know this story the truth in the Earhart

540
00:24:48,410 --> 00:24:46,680
story as I know so well it's absolutely

541
00:24:51,170 --> 00:24:48,420
hated by the mainstream media in this

542
00:24:54,950 --> 00:24:51,180
country the establishment despises this

543
00:24:57,620 --> 00:24:54,960
that's and so we have to have our ducks

544
00:24:59,270 --> 00:24:57,630
in a row before anybody is ever going to

545
00:25:02,720 --> 00:24:59,280
pay attention to this even if they do

546
00:25:04,940 --> 00:25:02,730
then do you understand so that's where

547
00:25:07,700 --> 00:25:04,950
les comes in and lessons but doing a lot

548
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:07,710
of looking into some of these claims now

549
00:25:14,900 --> 00:25:11,450
when I did a story on my blog recently I

550
00:25:17,810 --> 00:25:14,910
was very excited when I saw that DVD as

551
00:25:22,820 --> 00:25:17,820
you were I thought that that DVD was

552
00:25:24,590 --> 00:25:22,830
really a you know a for once we have

553
00:25:27,140 --> 00:25:24,600
some artifacts we have what we could

554
00:25:29,270 --> 00:25:27,150
call concrete proof and then we have Jim

555
00:25:30,290 --> 00:25:29,280
Hayden saying that he thinks that this

556
00:25:34,010 --> 00:25:30,300
is the Holy Grail

557
00:25:36,620 --> 00:25:34,020
and that he's almost positive that these

558
00:25:39,530 --> 00:25:36,630
came from the plane and that the odds of

559
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:39,540
them being from another elector are

560
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:42,330
remote all those statements may well be

561
00:25:46,490 --> 00:25:45,090
true they may well be true but that that

562
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:46,500
is yet to be determined

563
00:25:50,990 --> 00:25:48,810
you know we have to go to Lockheed they

564
00:25:53,090 --> 00:25:51,000
have to be these things have to go go

565
00:25:55,310 --> 00:25:53,100
through the whole process and that's

566
00:25:58,550 --> 00:25:55,320
where I think it would be helpful for

567
00:26:00,560 --> 00:25:58,560
less to explain to the listeners you

568
00:26:02,570 --> 00:26:00,570
know well this is online with us now

569
00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:02,580
Mike why don't you invite him to join in

570
00:26:09,230 --> 00:26:05,370
with us les come on in and tell us what

571
00:26:12,470 --> 00:26:09,240
you found lately okay good evening

572
00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:12,480
I I've been following this research for

573
00:26:16,820 --> 00:26:14,130
probably thirty years I'm a retired

574
00:26:19,150 --> 00:26:16,830
level religion and I got involved in

575
00:26:21,590 --> 00:26:19,160
this when I was mainly the

576
00:26:24,380 --> 00:26:21,600
specialization charge for u.s. customs

577
00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:24,390
investigations in Honolulu I had an

578
00:26:28,430 --> 00:26:26,370
opportunity to numerous trips himself

579
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:28,440
Pacific on other missions and Menuhin

580
00:26:35,390 --> 00:26:31,770
Marcotte xmin but I've been interested

581
00:26:39,980 --> 00:26:35,400
in there are in as far as the evidence

582
00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:39,990
that mr. Spencer's of recovered I think

583
00:26:45,030 --> 00:26:42,310
in all likelihood it is in

584
00:26:48,060 --> 00:26:45,040
from Erath clink and by that I mean

585
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:48,070
maybe 90% chance I just can't see

586
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:49,930
another rationale or any other reason

587
00:26:54,390 --> 00:26:51,490
why it would be from something else

588
00:26:59,850 --> 00:26:54,400
there was 26 aircraft that were downed

589
00:27:02,400 --> 00:26:59,860
on in the millie islands by the japanese

590
00:27:05,220 --> 00:27:02,410
in other words 26 US aircraft were gone

591
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:05,230
for a variety of reasons and none were

592
00:27:10,980 --> 00:27:08,410
near this island where unless your space

593
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:10,990
recovered be the evidence that an email

594
00:27:15,990 --> 00:27:14,050
has and there's an 11 japanese aircraft

595
00:27:21,090 --> 00:27:16,000
they were down and again none of we're

596
00:27:24,060 --> 00:27:21,100
near bari bari island so that in keeping

597
00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:24,070
with what mr. Spence has discovered as

598
00:27:29,790 --> 00:27:26,370
far as the location on that island and

599
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:29,800
the area where the barge might have came

600
00:27:37,050 --> 00:27:34,210
in more than likely it is from air arts

601
00:27:39,420 --> 00:27:37,060
plane and the reason I say that is as an

602
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:39,430
investigator I'm looking back at the

603
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:41,530
previous witnesses and the witnesses are

604
00:27:46,290 --> 00:27:44,050
all Marshall leaves from the 1970s and

605
00:27:49,230 --> 00:27:46,300
then team early 80s and they totally

606
00:27:52,470 --> 00:27:49,240
barely researchers about this plane that

607
00:27:56,490 --> 00:27:52,480
landed on this particular Island in

608
00:27:58,860 --> 00:27:56,500
Millia tour and this is exact location

609
00:28:01,350 --> 00:27:58,870
and it's really difficult for me to

610
00:28:04,260 --> 00:28:01,360
believe that these natives or these

611
00:28:06,180 --> 00:28:04,270
locals that I prefer to : that would

612
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:06,190
have made these stories up when they had

613
00:28:10,890 --> 00:28:08,770
no relationship with one another and we

614
00:28:13,220 --> 00:28:10,900
all talked about that fact that a to

615
00:28:15,390 --> 00:28:13,230
white people coming out of a plane and

616
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:15,400
rolling to the beach so to speak or

617
00:28:20,850 --> 00:28:18,610
paddling in a little boat and this is

618
00:28:23,670 --> 00:28:20,860
the exact location that they describe to

619
00:28:25,770 --> 00:28:23,680
these researchers back in the 1960s 70s

620
00:28:28,230 --> 00:28:25,780
and 80s and when you put that all

621
00:28:29,580 --> 00:28:28,240
together with mr. Spence is found I find

622
00:28:31,020 --> 00:28:29,590
a very difficult to believe that it

623
00:28:35,130 --> 00:28:31,030
could be possibly anything else other

624
00:28:39,270 --> 00:28:35,140
than your hair it's clean it's just it's

625
00:28:42,420 --> 00:28:39,280
amazing I've posted in our chat room a a

626
00:28:44,850 --> 00:28:42,430
map of the Marshall Islands here and you

627
00:28:48,270 --> 00:28:44,860
can clearly see down in the far right

628
00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:48,280
hand bottom corner where Milly atoll is

629
00:28:53,870 --> 00:28:50,710
and if you go straight across to the

630
00:28:55,980 --> 00:28:53,880
west you see shallow 8 and then you go

631
00:28:58,020 --> 00:28:55,990
up just a little bit

632
00:29:01,230 --> 00:28:58,030
qua Shaolin is in there somewhere I

633
00:29:03,900 --> 00:29:01,240
can't quite spot it and then Saipan is

634
00:29:08,850 --> 00:29:03,910
off the map over to the kind of to the

635
00:29:10,890 --> 00:29:08,860
northwest so it's just it's just amazing

636
00:29:13,380 --> 00:29:10,900
that it is taken it's amazing to me that

637
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:13,390
it's taken 70 something years for this

638
00:29:18,780 --> 00:29:16,170
to come to this point

639
00:29:20,970 --> 00:29:18,790
daiquiri so with us oh yes I'm still

640
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:20,980
here tell us about some of the other

641
00:29:25,830 --> 00:29:22,690
material that you found there in that

642
00:29:29,190 --> 00:29:25,840
same area where you found this apu cover

643
00:29:32,490 --> 00:29:29,200
and the what appears to be a dust cover

644
00:29:34,290 --> 00:29:32,500
for the wheel the tire you know there

645
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:34,300
wasn't really a lot of other things some

646
00:29:39,690 --> 00:29:35,530
of the things that that didn't make

647
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:39,700
sense was looked like some rigging for

648
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:41,290
lifting an airplane there was some some

649
00:29:48,780 --> 00:29:43,450
heavy tires that were cut the were cut

650
00:29:51,060 --> 00:29:48,790
pretty uniquely that would have taken if

651
00:29:52,860 --> 00:29:51,070
they would have been cut some place in a

652
00:29:55,260 --> 00:29:52,870
in a machine shop or something and there

653
00:29:57,270 --> 00:29:55,270
are very old tires that looked like they

654
00:29:59,520 --> 00:29:57,280
were rigging something used to move

655
00:30:02,040 --> 00:29:59,530
something heavy and some of the other

656
00:30:06,420 --> 00:30:02,050
things that we came across right exactly

657
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:06,430
where the airplane was loaded out were

658
00:30:11,940 --> 00:30:09,130
some old steel dollies that some of the

659
00:30:13,890 --> 00:30:11,950
old timers they're catchy an old

660
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:13,900
Marshall lease guy whose grandmother was

661
00:30:18,270 --> 00:30:15,850
beheaded by the Japanese on Milly atoll

662
00:30:21,390 --> 00:30:18,280
he was telling us stories about how some

663
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:21,400
of the coral was cleared away to move

664
00:30:25,950 --> 00:30:23,770
the shallow-draft barge in to move the

665
00:30:29,010 --> 00:30:25,960
airplane onto the barge and there are

666
00:30:31,530 --> 00:30:29,020
still some of the old dollies there that

667
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:31,540
were used extensively in areas of the

668
00:30:37,890 --> 00:30:33,850
Marshall Marshall Islands to move bombs

669
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:37,900
around on some of the some of the larger

670
00:30:43,590 --> 00:30:42,130
military installations and you know

671
00:30:45,780 --> 00:30:43,600
there's no reason for those to be out on

672
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:45,790
this little island this is a very small

673
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:48,730
little island and here these things are

674
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:51,250
sitting right where the airplane was

675
00:30:56,900 --> 00:30:53,890
loaded out are what's left of them after

676
00:30:59,280 --> 00:30:56,910
77 years of rust they're big heavy iron

677
00:31:02,940 --> 00:30:59,290
wheels that run on small gauge railroad

678
00:31:05,100 --> 00:31:02,950
tracks and so those are some of the

679
00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:05,110
rigging supplies of course they're not

680
00:31:08,430 --> 00:31:06,880
anything to do with an aircraft but they

681
00:31:09,570 --> 00:31:08,440
would be something that would be used to

682
00:31:12,570 --> 00:31:09,580
move that aircraft

683
00:31:14,190 --> 00:31:12,580
from the reef on one side at the point

684
00:31:16,470 --> 00:31:14,200
where they landed to around where they

685
00:31:17,970 --> 00:31:16,480
could get the barge in on the inside of

686
00:31:19,859 --> 00:31:17,980
this island

687
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:19,869
as she was closer to the outside but

688
00:31:24,479 --> 00:31:21,730
there's no way in the surf that you

689
00:31:26,279 --> 00:31:24,489
would be able to load anything out out

690
00:31:28,830 --> 00:31:26,289
on the outside of that coral reef you'd

691
00:31:30,330 --> 00:31:28,840
have to do it on the lagoon side and of

692
00:31:32,070 --> 00:31:30,340
course that's what the old

693
00:31:36,269 --> 00:31:32,080
Marshallese witnesses that helped do

694
00:31:38,039 --> 00:31:36,279
this had reported I want to ask Mike a

695
00:31:43,889 --> 00:31:38,049
question for clarification here I

696
00:31:47,090 --> 00:31:43,899
remember a story in your book where one

697
00:31:49,889 --> 00:31:47,100
or two witnesses reported seeing two men

698
00:31:53,609 --> 00:31:49,899
land in a plane or touchdown in a plane

699
00:31:56,460 --> 00:31:53,619
and they got in a boat that grew a

700
00:31:58,320 --> 00:31:56,470
yellow boat that grew and went through

701
00:32:00,599 --> 00:31:58,330
the water and came up on shore now

702
00:32:03,450 --> 00:32:00,609
exactly what was the location where they

703
00:32:05,669 --> 00:32:03,460
saw that do you remember basically that

704
00:32:08,539 --> 00:32:05,679
was that was where dick is talking about

705
00:32:11,700 --> 00:32:08,549
that is the location off of Bar Island

706
00:32:14,669 --> 00:32:11,710
they didn't call any of the islands by

707
00:32:19,409 --> 00:32:14,679
name and that at that time but when of

708
00:32:22,649 --> 00:32:19,419
Victor Vincent V Loomis went to you know

709
00:32:26,330 --> 00:32:22,659
went there in the mid-80s the early 80s

710
00:32:28,769 --> 00:32:26,340
to do his his research he talked to a

711
00:32:32,430 --> 00:32:28,779
witness named Gerardo that's what you're

712
00:32:35,549 --> 00:32:32,440
talking about Jo or ro ro ro and he was

713
00:32:40,279 --> 00:32:35,559
there with with a witness Ned spelled Li

714
00:32:42,869 --> 00:32:40,289
Jo on Oh Ann Lee ice I call it Leon and

715
00:32:44,909 --> 00:32:42,879
apparently it's called wise one over

716
00:32:46,619 --> 00:32:44,919
there and it's spelled a little bit

717
00:32:47,729 --> 00:32:46,629
different way I think we're talking

718
00:32:50,999 --> 00:32:47,739
about the same person

719
00:32:53,999 --> 00:32:51,009
yeah and the these people are the two

720
00:32:56,509 --> 00:32:54,009
guys that saw them get out of the plane

721
00:32:59,039 --> 00:32:56,519
they indicated that it was in the water

722
00:33:02,789 --> 00:32:59,049
because they got into a yellow boat

723
00:33:06,269 --> 00:33:02,799
which grew now you know to an

724
00:33:09,389 --> 00:33:06,279
unsophisticated marshalese a yellow boat

725
00:33:13,619 --> 00:33:09,399
which grew is a perfect description of

726
00:33:17,009 --> 00:33:13,629
an inflatable life raft Thanks I walk

727
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:17,019
that entire place many times and I

728
00:33:23,909 --> 00:33:19,090
studied the tides at what they were and

729
00:33:25,649 --> 00:33:23,919
at high tide they would be in a few feet

730
00:33:27,989 --> 00:33:25,659
of water there and then at low tide you

731
00:33:30,539 --> 00:33:27,999
could walk out even beyond that the reef

732
00:33:32,190 --> 00:33:30,549
is just it's an awesome expanse

733
00:33:35,220 --> 00:33:32,200
especially when you look at it from the

734
00:33:37,379 --> 00:33:35,230
air and my DVD there's a I had a some

735
00:33:41,099 --> 00:33:37,389
aerial shots of the size of that reef

736
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:41,109
and exactly where she lands and I've got

737
00:33:47,249 --> 00:33:42,850
some great photographs of it

738
00:33:49,379 --> 00:33:47,259
and the reef it it it is huge the the

739
00:33:50,999 --> 00:33:49,389
issue that's a problem there's some

740
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:51,009
pretty good coral heads that are on that

741
00:33:56,609 --> 00:33:54,490
reef too that would make a landing

742
00:33:59,669 --> 00:33:56,619
pretty difficult when you could see that

743
00:34:02,129 --> 00:33:59,679
that would you know tear an airplane up

744
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:02,139
pretty good coming in on that little how

745
00:34:09,450 --> 00:34:06,970
large in terms of I'm sitting here alone

746
00:34:11,190 --> 00:34:09,460
in my room with my hands in front of me

747
00:34:14,309 --> 00:34:11,200
trying to do like well it's like the

748
00:34:16,349 --> 00:34:14,319
size of a bread basket how big the coral

749
00:34:18,089 --> 00:34:16,359
there on the beach do all the coral

750
00:34:20,490 --> 00:34:18,099
heads that are on that beach range in

751
00:34:23,609 --> 00:34:20,500
size from grapefruit sized to a large

752
00:34:24,750 --> 00:34:23,619
majority of watermelon size to our coral

753
00:34:28,559 --> 00:34:24,760
heads that are three feet in diameter

754
00:34:30,299 --> 00:34:28,569
now now those 36 inch air air wheel

755
00:34:32,940 --> 00:34:30,309
tires that Amelia Earhart had for

756
00:34:35,549 --> 00:34:32,950
unimproved runways on her aircraft would

757
00:34:38,309 --> 00:34:35,559
would easily take grapefruit sized rocks

758
00:34:39,990 --> 00:34:38,319
up to you know a watermelon sized rock

759
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:40,000
would throw her plane around pretty good

760
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:42,010
she might still be able to recover from

761
00:34:45,659 --> 00:34:43,690
okay but when you start getting the ones

762
00:34:47,690 --> 00:34:45,669
bigger than that that's where she would

763
00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:47,700
have had the issue Wow

764
00:34:51,030 --> 00:34:50,649
unless you're still with us right yes I

765
00:34:53,549 --> 00:34:51,040
am

766
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:53,559
what can you be a little bit more

767
00:34:59,609 --> 00:34:56,530
specific about what kinds if you wanted

768
00:35:01,620 --> 00:34:59,619
to know if you were the judge in charge

769
00:35:04,980 --> 00:35:01,630
of this evidence and you said here's

770
00:35:07,380 --> 00:35:04,990
what I need to know to agree that yep

771
00:35:09,450 --> 00:35:07,390
this looks like it's exactly that it

772
00:35:11,549 --> 00:35:09,460
belonged to at least an elector if not

773
00:35:13,140 --> 00:35:11,559
her very elector what what kind of

774
00:35:15,900 --> 00:35:13,150
testing would have to be done to these

775
00:35:19,530 --> 00:35:15,910
two artifacts at dick's found well

776
00:35:21,539 --> 00:35:19,540
that's a great question the initial

777
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:21,549
testing obviously would have to be

778
00:35:26,819 --> 00:35:23,890
whether in fact that the pieces that

779
00:35:30,530 --> 00:35:26,829
dick has found would match those that

780
00:35:33,750 --> 00:35:30,540
came off of a Goodyear air wheel and

781
00:35:35,340 --> 00:35:33,760
originally we thought that that maybe

782
00:35:38,010 --> 00:35:35,350
only Milwaukee 10

783
00:35:40,410 --> 00:35:38,020
type of plane that Earhart flew was the

784
00:35:43,590 --> 00:35:40,420
was the only plane that had Lee Goodyear

785
00:35:44,940 --> 00:35:43,600
area but it's I sent it to determined

786
00:35:47,850 --> 00:35:44,950
that that's not the case there is a

787
00:35:51,510 --> 00:35:47,860
variety of the US aircraft that would

788
00:35:54,030 --> 00:35:51,520
have them capable of having we block the

789
00:35:55,650 --> 00:35:54,040
Lockheed Ariel and I got explain a

790
00:35:57,750 --> 00:35:55,660
little bit more the Lockheed care will

791
00:36:00,420 --> 00:35:57,760
means two things one it's the tire

792
00:36:02,940 --> 00:36:00,430
itself this was a big huge balloon tire

793
00:36:05,850 --> 00:36:02,950
but it's also the same generic name as

794
00:36:07,710 --> 00:36:05,860
the whole generic brake system that

795
00:36:09,270 --> 00:36:07,720
comes down where the wheel is attached

796
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:09,280
to so that's important to understand

797
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:10,570
that they're both called an air wheel

798
00:36:16,980 --> 00:36:14,890
and there's a lot of us planes that

799
00:36:19,050 --> 00:36:16,990
could have in fact were companies that

800
00:36:22,380 --> 00:36:19,060
could have purchased our hair wheel so

801
00:36:24,810 --> 00:36:22,390
we have to determine how many planes

802
00:36:27,150 --> 00:36:24,820
would have been built with that air

803
00:36:29,370 --> 00:36:27,160
wheel secondly we have to determine if

804
00:36:31,350 --> 00:36:29,380
in fact planes weird over that aerial

805
00:36:34,170 --> 00:36:31,360
how many would ended up in the Pacific

806
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:34,180
Ocean in the Central Pacific and so far

807
00:36:37,950 --> 00:36:36,010
and the research that I've done it's

808
00:36:40,350 --> 00:36:37,960
been zero I have not been able to find

809
00:36:42,660 --> 00:36:40,360
any that does not matter I mean that

810
00:36:44,580 --> 00:36:42,670
that's the case but certainly I have not

811
00:36:46,410 --> 00:36:44,590
come across any aircraft and there is a

812
00:36:49,650 --> 00:36:46,420
variety of aircraft that could have used

813
00:36:54,690 --> 00:36:49,660
a real Milwaukee 10 the Lockheed 12a

814
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:54,700
locking 14 uh and in fact the Beechcraft

815
00:36:59,940 --> 00:36:57,010
company called a beech 18 and they had a

816
00:37:02,340 --> 00:36:59,950
military version called at sea 45 in

817
00:37:04,770 --> 00:37:02,350
essence could have used that air wheel

818
00:37:06,510 --> 00:37:04,780
now what are the military had purchased

819
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:06,520
those air wheels for those aircraft

820
00:37:09,870 --> 00:37:08,650
that's I don't know and we're trying to

821
00:37:12,660 --> 00:37:09,880
attempting the pilot out

822
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:12,670
unfortunately Lockheed's records have

823
00:37:15,870 --> 00:37:14,650
been destroyed and most of the records

824
00:37:18,660 --> 00:37:15,880
that they had have been transferred to

825
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:18,670
University of Akron in Ohio and we're

826
00:37:22,410 --> 00:37:20,050
I'm going through those records right

827
00:37:24,150 --> 00:37:22,420
now to determine in fact if that can

828
00:37:26,940 --> 00:37:24,160
take place but I want to mention

829
00:37:28,890 --> 00:37:26,950
something else that you brought up

830
00:37:31,890 --> 00:37:28,900
Alaura and that's regarding Kwajalein

831
00:37:34,890 --> 00:37:31,900
here's another issue that ties right in

832
00:37:37,170 --> 00:37:34,900
to this beyond a reasonable doubt the

833
00:37:39,750 --> 00:37:37,180
kind of it's a it's a kind of factor

834
00:37:43,050 --> 00:37:39,760
that we utilize in court and that is

835
00:37:46,230 --> 00:37:43,060
unroyal more in quarreling which is

836
00:37:48,849 --> 00:37:46,240
nearby and allegedly and I'm saying

837
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:48,859
using that word loosely they're likely

838
00:37:53,469 --> 00:37:51,890
Earhart was transferred from jail you as

839
00:37:56,079 --> 00:37:53,479
you described and she was brought down

840
00:37:58,029 --> 00:37:56,089
to write more in quarreling and then

841
00:38:02,739 --> 00:37:58,039
hence transferred on de sipan by the

842
00:38:05,589 --> 00:38:02,749
Japanese there is evidence that and I

843
00:38:07,359 --> 00:38:05,599
have that evidence that a briefcase not

844
00:38:10,029 --> 00:38:07,369
speaking a briefcase with a suitcase was

845
00:38:12,370 --> 00:38:10,039
found on more in the more it contained

846
00:38:15,549 --> 00:38:12,380
the personal effects of New Year heart

847
00:38:17,709 --> 00:38:15,559
and that was denied by the US government

848
00:38:19,989 --> 00:38:17,719
was denied by the Marines and it was

849
00:38:23,349 --> 00:38:19,999
written up in the Fred Garner's first

850
00:38:26,319 --> 00:38:23,359
book 1966 he had read a marine who

851
00:38:28,779 --> 00:38:26,329
discovered this in a room that had not

852
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:28,789
been destroyed by the marine bombing and

853
00:38:32,319 --> 00:38:30,650
they opened up the suitcase and it

854
00:38:35,859 --> 00:38:32,329
contained the personal effects including

855
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:35,869
a diary of the Milly Earhart oh he

856
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:37,130
turned that over to regimental

857
00:38:42,569 --> 00:38:38,930
intelligence and Marines have denied

858
00:38:45,190 --> 00:38:42,579
that I have found within last year

859
00:38:47,529 --> 00:38:45,200
records in the National Archives they

860
00:38:50,319 --> 00:38:47,539
clearly indicate that the Marines found

861
00:38:53,439 --> 00:38:50,329
a suitcase belonging to a confidential

862
00:38:56,529 --> 00:38:53,449
US citizen on Roy Moore at the exact

863
00:39:03,959 --> 00:38:56,539
time that this witness from the Lion

864
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:03,969
City founded in 1944 Wow Wow now why

865
00:39:10,989 --> 00:39:07,930
course this is something I've pestered

866
00:39:14,319 --> 00:39:10,999
Mike Campbell to death in the last year

867
00:39:16,749 --> 00:39:14,329
asking this question why would why do

868
00:39:18,849 --> 00:39:16,759
you think that the Marines or anyone

869
00:39:21,099 --> 00:39:18,859
else in the government would be working

870
00:39:25,870 --> 00:39:21,109
so hard to keep this a secret for this

871
00:39:27,849 --> 00:39:25,880
length of time Mike Campbell it brings

872
00:39:30,699 --> 00:39:27,859
up well he thinks it's an answer that

873
00:39:31,630 --> 00:39:30,709
and I agree with in his book on the

874
00:39:35,469 --> 00:39:31,640
truth at last

875
00:39:38,589 --> 00:39:35,479
and that is simply in 1944 we were so

876
00:39:41,650 --> 00:39:38,599
engrossed in the war FDR was still alive

877
00:39:45,039 --> 00:39:41,660
and he was he would have known all of

878
00:39:46,209 --> 00:39:45,049
this going back from both 1938 and prime

879
00:39:48,219 --> 00:39:46,219
time would have been a burl

880
00:39:51,670 --> 00:39:48,229
embarrassment to the original

881
00:39:55,359 --> 00:39:51,680
administration if in fact it came out

882
00:39:57,219 --> 00:39:55,369
that Amelia Earhart was alized and that

883
00:39:58,959 --> 00:39:57,229
she was captured by the Japanese and we

884
00:40:00,699 --> 00:39:58,969
had known about that in other words

885
00:40:02,049 --> 00:40:00,709
they've done a secret that just could

886
00:40:07,420 --> 00:40:02,059
not have been exposed

887
00:40:10,329 --> 00:40:07,430
in 1944 that's all those facing a very

888
00:40:12,130 --> 00:40:10,339
very difficult election and this alone

889
00:40:13,930 --> 00:40:12,140
would have turned an election against

890
00:40:16,029 --> 00:40:13,940
and there's no question in my mind I

891
00:40:18,309 --> 00:40:16,039
mean the Erhard was one of the strongest

892
00:40:21,519 --> 00:40:18,319
individuals in the first half of the

893
00:40:22,509 --> 00:40:21,529
20th century and if the general public

894
00:40:25,150 --> 00:40:22,519
would have known that America's

895
00:40:27,579 --> 00:40:25,160
Sweetheart had been captured since 1938

896
00:40:29,739 --> 00:40:27,589
by the Japanese there's just no way that

897
00:40:33,749 --> 00:40:29,749
the administration at that time would

898
00:40:37,420 --> 00:40:33,759
allow that kind of information to escape

899
00:40:39,670 --> 00:40:37,430
that's exactly right less thank you it's

900
00:40:43,809 --> 00:40:39,680
nicely here it's almost like listening

901
00:40:46,359 --> 00:40:43,819
to myself for a change it's been so hard

902
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:46,369
to convince people of this apparently

903
00:40:55,839 --> 00:40:50,690
you're on board anyway good I want to

904
00:41:00,579 --> 00:40:55,849
give a plug Mike to your your blog it is

905
00:41:03,549 --> 00:41:00,589
one of the most engrossing and I've got

906
00:41:06,459 --> 00:41:03,559
to say it's very active it's a very

907
00:41:08,349 --> 00:41:06,469
active point/counterpoint almost every

908
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:08,359
day there are several comments posted

909
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:10,130
there and it's really heating up now

910
00:41:15,989 --> 00:41:13,249
that this this new evidence has come

911
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:15,999
forth and especially in light of the

912
00:41:22,329 --> 00:41:19,729
tiger claims that and this is to me this

913
00:41:25,209 --> 00:41:22,339
is so funny that they're coming I mean

914
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:25,219
that there's this aluminum scrap that's

915
00:41:30,390 --> 00:41:27,650
supposed to have been the cover to

916
00:41:33,479 --> 00:41:30,400
replace where a window used to be

917
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:33,489
however it's stamped with an ink that

918
00:41:38,589 --> 00:41:35,930
shows that the aluminum was not even

919
00:41:42,549 --> 00:41:38,599
made until the 40s and she went down in

920
00:41:45,039 --> 00:41:42,559
37 and then on top of that they had

921
00:41:50,199 --> 00:41:45,049
brought this up in 1991 and it had been

922
00:41:54,579 --> 00:41:50,209
discredited but I was at Alcoa yes

923
00:41:56,859 --> 00:41:54,589
alcohol and and yet here we are in 2014

924
00:41:58,719 --> 00:41:56,869
he's brought it up again like oh look at

925
00:42:01,029 --> 00:41:58,729
what we found forget that we found it in

926
00:42:04,779 --> 00:42:01,039
1991 and that they already said this

927
00:42:08,789 --> 00:42:04,789
couldn't belong to that plane it's just

928
00:42:11,019 --> 00:42:08,799
remarkable Laurel this is less kin again

929
00:42:13,449 --> 00:42:11,029
I'd like to mention something that the

930
00:42:15,219 --> 00:42:13,459
general public and especially the tiger

931
00:42:15,650 --> 00:42:15,229
has gotten a tremendous amount of press

932
00:42:19,940 --> 00:42:15,660
and they

933
00:42:21,950 --> 00:42:19,950
their faxes and sorter but the thing

934
00:42:24,289 --> 00:42:21,960
that needs to be told the general public

935
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:24,299
if they could visualize a flat island no

936
00:42:28,849 --> 00:42:26,210
more than six feet high meaningless

937
00:42:32,450 --> 00:42:28,859
Gardner Island look more as they call it

938
00:42:35,450 --> 00:42:32,460
today and it's three miles long and it's

939
00:42:37,609 --> 00:42:35,460
literally only maybe a hundred and fifty

940
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:37,619
yards wide its widest point and then

941
00:42:41,359 --> 00:42:39,690
there's a can you visualize a lagoon and

942
00:42:45,260 --> 00:42:41,369
another hard 50 yards on the other side

943
00:42:48,620 --> 00:42:45,270
and three US aircraft and these were

944
00:42:51,079 --> 00:42:48,630
opened cockpit aircraft with two young

945
00:42:54,079 --> 00:42:51,089
each of them they pool that Island a few

946
00:42:57,020 --> 00:42:54,089
days after Earhart had disappeared from

947
00:42:59,359 --> 00:42:57,030
500 feet at 85 miles an hour it's very

948
00:43:01,760 --> 00:42:59,369
very slow and they cruise that island

949
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:01,770
back and forth for a half hour and they

950
00:43:06,770 --> 00:43:04,650
saw nothing and it seems to me that a

951
00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:06,780
familiar art and Fred Noonan were out

952
00:43:11,450 --> 00:43:08,730
there they certainly would have came out

953
00:43:14,059 --> 00:43:11,460
somewhere and dancer on it and you would

954
00:43:16,069 --> 00:43:14,069
have seen they were seeing these planes

955
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:16,079
and the planes that sing her that did

956
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:17,010
not happen

957
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:19,890
that alone is truth to me that's their

958
00:43:24,260 --> 00:43:22,650
never on that on come in just the

959
00:43:27,859 --> 00:43:24,270
beginning and that's just the beginning

960
00:43:30,140 --> 00:43:27,869
of reasons why the who to believe that

961
00:43:32,569 --> 00:43:30,150
they were never on that island I mean

962
00:43:35,180 --> 00:43:32,579
there's a there's a whole encyclopedia

963
00:43:39,140 --> 00:43:35,190
full of reasons why they were never on

964
00:43:42,549 --> 00:43:39,150
that island but you know this idea is

965
00:43:45,589 --> 00:43:42,559
constantly being repackaged and resold

966
00:43:47,930 --> 00:43:45,599
you know Barnum & Bailey style to the

967
00:43:50,660 --> 00:43:47,940
American public it's beyond ridiculous

968
00:43:53,269 --> 00:43:50,670
it's gotten to be just a farce and a

969
00:43:55,250 --> 00:43:53,279
travesty and what it proves what it

970
00:43:57,559 --> 00:43:55,260
really proves is how much the

971
00:44:00,859 --> 00:43:57,569
establishment is determined to keep the

972
00:44:03,260 --> 00:44:00,869
truth away from the public because if

973
00:44:05,029 --> 00:44:03,270
there was any merit to the fact there

974
00:44:08,930 --> 00:44:05,039
was there any merit to the idea that

975
00:44:10,849 --> 00:44:08,940
they were ever on Gardner Island they

976
00:44:12,410 --> 00:44:10,859
would have already they they were they

977
00:44:15,230 --> 00:44:12,420
would have already claimed the mystery

978
00:44:17,569 --> 00:44:15,240
is solved if they proved anything in 10

979
00:44:19,569 --> 00:44:17,579
trips it's that they were never there

980
00:44:22,099 --> 00:44:19,579
not that they were there if they

981
00:44:24,740 --> 00:44:22,109
Gillespie is constantly trying to dream

982
00:44:27,589 --> 00:44:24,750
up some other reason to go back you know

983
00:44:28,250 --> 00:44:27,599
and get his payday for another another

984
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:28,260
year

985
00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:29,410
this isn't we won

986
00:44:35,190 --> 00:44:32,800
this cycle go or go on now for 29 years

987
00:44:37,530 --> 00:44:35,200
and it's it's just it's just a bit much

988
00:44:40,890 --> 00:44:37,540
you know and it's just it's way way too

989
00:44:42,180 --> 00:44:40,900
much and I get very yeah I do get very

990
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:42,190
emotional about it

991
00:44:47,060 --> 00:44:44,290
because I saw what it did to Thomas

992
00:44:51,870 --> 00:44:47,070
Devine when I first met to the divine in

993
00:44:54,210 --> 00:44:51,880
1990 I said the the tigar thing was just

994
00:44:57,030 --> 00:44:54,220
beginning to explode across the nation

995
00:44:59,520 --> 00:44:57,040
and I saw how it just took everything

996
00:45:02,040 --> 00:44:59,530
away from divine who had just published

997
00:45:05,310 --> 00:45:02,050
his book in 1987 and was beginning to

998
00:45:09,300 --> 00:45:05,320
get attention a little bit of attention

999
00:45:11,460 --> 00:45:09,310
from some people but hardly anything and

1000
00:45:14,010 --> 00:45:11,470
then tigar just swept him away it's

1001
00:45:16,650 --> 00:45:14,020
almost like they were placed there to to

1002
00:45:19,380 --> 00:45:16,660
discredit divine and to just obscure

1003
00:45:21,780 --> 00:45:19,390
Divine's eyewitness account of what he

1004
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:21,790
saw on Saipan you know during the

1005
00:45:26,010 --> 00:45:24,490
invasion in 1944 when he saw the Elector

1006
00:45:28,140 --> 00:45:26,020
three times and he wrote the book the

1007
00:45:30,180 --> 00:45:28,150
the reason that I even got involved with

1008
00:45:32,250 --> 00:45:30,190
this at all to begin with with was

1009
00:45:35,220 --> 00:45:32,260
Thomas Devine and I witnessed the Amelia

1010
00:45:37,590 --> 00:45:35,230
Earhart incident you know Mike why don't

1011
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:37,600
you why don't you say a little bit

1012
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:39,850
describe what Divine's eyewitness

1013
00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:41,650
testimony was because it's pretty

1014
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:43,200
interesting

1015
00:45:51,450 --> 00:45:47,850
well when divine of reached Saipan in

1016
00:45:54,030 --> 00:45:51,460
1944 he was not one of the initial

1017
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:54,040
people that stormed the island he was

1018
00:46:00,630 --> 00:45:57,010
not a Marine he was an army postal

1019
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:00,640
sergeant and he was not required to go

1020
00:46:05,250 --> 00:46:03,250
ashore until after almost the island was

1021
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:05,260
almost secured when he went ashore on

1022
00:46:12,990 --> 00:46:10,690
July 6 1944 but at that time he was

1023
00:46:16,730 --> 00:46:13,000
ordered to drive by his commanding

1024
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:16,740
officer in the Army's 244th postal unit

1025
00:46:23,910 --> 00:46:20,770
he was ordered by his commanding officer

1026
00:46:25,530 --> 00:46:23,920
Fritz legally be a lieutenant but he was

1027
00:46:27,630 --> 00:46:25,540
only a lieutenant it was a small unit

1028
00:46:29,820 --> 00:46:27,640
and he took him to as lido airfield

1029
00:46:32,100 --> 00:46:29,830
that's the Japanese name for the airport

1030
00:46:35,370 --> 00:46:32,110
there for their airfield and when he did

1031
00:46:37,770 --> 00:46:35,380
they got to the airfield Devine heard a

1032
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:37,780
bunch of marine officers in front of it

1033
00:46:42,030 --> 00:46:39,490
what he said was an administration

1034
00:46:42,900 --> 00:46:42,040
building arguing about the Earhart plane

1035
00:46:45,930 --> 00:46:42,910
and who would

1036
00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:45,940
get credit for finding it he was of

1037
00:46:51,260 --> 00:46:48,250
course baffled by what he was seeing and

1038
00:46:53,700 --> 00:46:51,270
he saw then a white man in khakis

1039
00:46:56,700 --> 00:46:53,710
officer khakis but without insignia

1040
00:47:00,059 --> 00:46:56,710
approached the group and - and tell them

1041
00:47:02,579 --> 00:47:00,069
to - shut up and then to any that he

1042
00:47:05,250 --> 00:47:02,589
ordered them to leave the area Devine

1043
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:05,260
asked another marine he was sitting in a

1044
00:47:09,660 --> 00:47:08,410
jeep and he has to an enlisted marine if

1045
00:47:11,609 --> 00:47:09,670
it was true that they had found

1046
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:11,619
Earhart's plane and the Marine told him

1047
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:14,170
yes it's true but don't tell anybody I

1048
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:17,530
told you later on the Marine said they

1049
00:47:22,859 --> 00:47:20,650
would take the plane up in other words

1050
00:47:25,740 --> 00:47:22,869
they would fly it and later on that day

1051
00:47:27,630 --> 00:47:25,750
Devine wrote that he saw the actual the

1052
00:47:29,250 --> 00:47:27,640
Elector in flight and then he saw it

1053
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:29,260
land at as Ledo

1054
00:47:34,740 --> 00:47:32,650
he went to as Ledo again after returning

1055
00:47:37,589 --> 00:47:34,750
there from the administration building

1056
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:37,599
at the airport with with his uh was his

1057
00:47:41,670 --> 00:47:39,130
commanding officer he went back to

1058
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:41,680
Wesley doe because he was very curious

1059
00:47:46,829 --> 00:47:44,650
he was older than your average of army

1060
00:47:50,670 --> 00:47:46,839
enlisted personnel at the time he was 28

1061
00:47:52,470 --> 00:47:50,680
and he just couldn't be restrained he

1062
00:47:54,630 --> 00:47:52,480
wanted to know what was going on he

1063
00:47:58,769 --> 00:47:54,640
actually approached the airplane he

1064
00:48:00,769 --> 00:47:58,779
climbed on the wing of n ar160 20 he

1065
00:48:03,900 --> 00:48:00,779
looked inside he saw some glass

1066
00:48:06,599 --> 00:48:03,910
shattered glass on the interior and he

1067
00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:06,609
said this is uh this uh airplane was

1068
00:48:11,279 --> 00:48:09,250
absolutely Amelia Hart's airplane he

1069
00:48:15,599 --> 00:48:11,289
then saw the what the man that had

1070
00:48:19,230 --> 00:48:15,609
ordered the officers he saw him at a

1071
00:48:22,890 --> 00:48:19,240
distance again observing divine and this

1072
00:48:25,289 --> 00:48:22,900
guy bub private Anderson was with him he

1073
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:25,299
observed he was observing him and divine

1074
00:48:29,220 --> 00:48:26,890
knew this guy was involved with this

1075
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:29,230
somehow and so he left the area at that

1076
00:48:34,589 --> 00:48:32,410
point later on that night he heard

1077
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:34,599
explosion he returned to the airfield

1078
00:48:40,529 --> 00:48:37,210
and he saw the same plane what he

1079
00:48:43,799 --> 00:48:40,539
believed was the same plane in flames so

1080
00:48:45,539 --> 00:48:43,809
we have other eyewitnesses we have other

1081
00:48:50,430 --> 00:48:45,549
witnesses to the destruction of the

1082
00:48:52,230 --> 00:48:50,440
Electra at his Lido field that I can't

1083
00:48:55,289 --> 00:48:52,240
even imagine what that must have felt

1084
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:55,299
like to someone especially I had not

1085
00:48:58,950 --> 00:48:56,890
remembered reading that he

1086
00:49:00,480 --> 00:48:58,960
actually touch the plane and got up on

1087
00:49:02,850 --> 00:49:00,490
the wing and looked into the cockpit I

1088
00:49:05,070 --> 00:49:02,860
mean to know that's what it was and it

1089
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:05,080
had been hiding there all this time and

1090
00:49:13,230 --> 00:49:07,770
then the next time you look it's on fire

1091
00:49:15,090 --> 00:49:13,240
mm-hmm yeah I mean and so divine when he

1092
00:49:17,490 --> 00:49:15,100
returned from the war figured that this

1093
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:17,500
was all going to be explained you know

1094
00:49:22,830 --> 00:49:20,050
and he also had another experience

1095
00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:22,840
before returning to the States on Saipan

1096
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:28,240
because he was he was retained on Saipan

1097
00:49:34,770 --> 00:49:32,410
after after all the you know the victory

1098
00:49:36,300 --> 00:49:34,780
was won and the island was secured there

1099
00:49:40,500 --> 00:49:36,310
was a there was a get what they call a

1100
00:49:43,170 --> 00:49:40,510
garrison force but stayed on Saipan that

1101
00:49:44,700 --> 00:49:43,180
also supported the of course the Bombers

1102
00:49:47,580 --> 00:49:44,710
that were attacking the Japanese

1103
00:49:52,620 --> 00:49:47,590
mainland from from Tinian and also from

1104
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:52,630
Saipan at that time and Devine was when

1105
00:49:58,320 --> 00:49:55,210
it was before right before Devine was

1106
00:50:01,140 --> 00:49:58,330
supposed to leave Saipan for the States

1107
00:50:02,670 --> 00:50:01,150
in August of 1945 but first of all he

1108
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:02,680
was shown what he believed was the grave

1109
00:50:06,930 --> 00:50:05,050
site of Amelia Earhart by an Okinawan

1110
00:50:08,430 --> 00:50:06,940
woman who said it was the gravesite of a

1111
00:50:11,550 --> 00:50:08,440
white man and a white woman who came

1112
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:11,560
from the sky and then the day that

1113
00:50:18,420 --> 00:50:14,170
Devine was supposed to go back to the

1114
00:50:22,410 --> 00:50:18,430
States on a ship he was told by another

1115
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:22,420
man in khaki in insignia and not officer

1116
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:24,490
insignia but without insignia in other

1117
00:50:29,430 --> 00:50:26,650
words what Devine thought was an

1118
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:29,440
intelligence type person on Saipan to

1119
00:50:33,450 --> 00:50:31,450
board an airplane he was told the board

1120
00:50:35,940 --> 00:50:33,460
an airplane forsook for Hawaii because

1121
00:50:39,990 --> 00:50:35,950
he knew about Amelia Earhart he was told

1122
00:50:42,270 --> 00:50:40,000
to do this and he was scared and he

1123
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:42,280
refused to do it he would not go on that

1124
00:50:46,530 --> 00:50:45,130
airplane and he feels that if he would

1125
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:46,540
have ever gone in that airplane that he

1126
00:50:53,850 --> 00:50:49,210
might not have ever landed safely

1127
00:50:56,070 --> 00:50:53,860
anywhere you know his glance is one of

1128
00:50:59,280 --> 00:50:56,080
this is one of the you know tangential

1129
00:51:01,200 --> 00:50:59,290
aspects the dot divine story that to me

1130
00:51:03,900 --> 00:51:01,210
makes it so realistic but to the

1131
00:51:05,730 --> 00:51:03,910
skeptics they just throw all this out

1132
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:05,740
they think this is all ridiculous that

1133
00:51:09,870 --> 00:51:07,690
he dreamed all this up yeah that this is

1134
00:51:10,740 --> 00:51:09,880
all just part of a conspiracy plot you

1135
00:51:13,590 --> 00:51:10,750
know but sin

1136
00:51:15,690 --> 00:51:13,600
me knowing him as I did he didn't have

1137
00:51:18,390 --> 00:51:15,700
very much imagination at all I mean he

1138
00:51:20,010 --> 00:51:18,400
really had very little because he had

1139
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:20,020
such a problem with the Marshall Islands

1140
00:51:25,290 --> 00:51:22,570
idea and everyday and other things he

1141
00:51:27,860 --> 00:51:25,300
really had no imagination there's no way

1142
00:51:31,590 --> 00:51:27,870
in the world he made any of this up and

1143
00:51:34,230 --> 00:51:31,600
the sad thing is that just because of

1144
00:51:37,470 --> 00:51:34,240
the passage of time so many of these

1145
00:51:40,020 --> 00:51:37,480
individuals that are quoted in your book

1146
00:51:43,050 --> 00:51:40,030
and Fred Garner's book they're they're

1147
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:43,060
dead there's not many left of dollars

1148
00:51:47,190 --> 00:51:45,010
tanned eyewitnesses right that's right

1149
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:47,200
right all the GIS are dead as far as I

1150
00:51:50,790 --> 00:51:49,570
know there might be one or two so if

1151
00:51:53,490 --> 00:51:50,800
they're not dead they're in their mid

1152
00:51:55,610 --> 00:51:53,500
90s and they're very you know they're

1153
00:51:58,950 --> 00:51:55,620
just on there they're that good shape

1154
00:52:00,090 --> 00:51:58,960
yeah Laurel it's like kind of fill in a

1155
00:52:04,830 --> 00:52:00,100
little bit here for the listeners

1156
00:52:07,020 --> 00:52:04,840
Strummer Mille atoll to Saipan because

1157
00:52:09,510 --> 00:52:07,030
you know that's quite a story in itself

1158
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:09,520
in between now you mentioned that our

1159
00:52:12,780 --> 00:52:10,810
plane and they were picked up by a

1160
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:12,790
Japanese fishing vessel well it wasn't a

1161
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:14,410
Japanese fishing vessel the name of the

1162
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:16,930
boat was the Koshu maru and it was

1163
00:52:23,940 --> 00:52:20,530
actually a u.s. built boat that ended up

1164
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:23,950
in Japan being in the Japanese military

1165
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:25,930
and it was a Japanese seaplane tender

1166
00:52:32,310 --> 00:52:30,970
now at the time when we do have evidence

1167
00:52:33,810 --> 00:52:32,320
that they were picked up there is

1168
00:52:36,450 --> 00:52:33,820
evidence that they were picked up by a

1169
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:36,460
fishing boat first and then transferred

1170
00:52:40,490 --> 00:52:38,290
to the Koshu that's what she was

1171
00:52:44,850 --> 00:52:40,500
referring to okay

1172
00:52:48,030 --> 00:52:44,860
but when say bill Aman Imran who is the

1173
00:52:49,770 --> 00:52:48,040
the medic saw Fred Noonan treated the

1174
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:49,780
wounds on his forehead in his leg that

1175
00:52:54,240 --> 00:52:51,850
was aboard the Koshu Maru which was the

1176
00:52:57,930 --> 00:52:54,250
vessel that took her the boat all the

1177
00:53:00,990 --> 00:52:57,940
way from basically Millie to JA loot up

1178
00:53:04,170 --> 00:53:01,000
the chain to quad and then eventually to

1179
00:53:06,570 --> 00:53:04,180
Saipan and do I remember reading that at

1180
00:53:11,370 --> 00:53:06,580
some point in that trip between Milly

1181
00:53:13,850 --> 00:53:11,380
and at least quarreling that the

1182
00:53:16,710 --> 00:53:13,860
Japanese were sort of treating this as a

1183
00:53:19,340 --> 00:53:16,720
march of Honor that look who we got we

1184
00:53:21,240 --> 00:53:19,350
found the we found the American female

1185
00:53:23,700 --> 00:53:21,250
pilot and

1186
00:53:25,650 --> 00:53:23,710
she's safe and we have her and we're

1187
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:25,660
taking care of her but it seems like I

1188
00:53:31,260 --> 00:53:28,450
remembered reading Mike either in your

1189
00:53:34,380 --> 00:53:31,270
book or maybe seeing it in some blog

1190
00:53:36,060 --> 00:53:34,390
that in the very beginning they thought

1191
00:53:37,740 --> 00:53:36,070
well this is great they found her and

1192
00:53:42,270 --> 00:53:37,750
she's safe and then all of a sudden she

1193
00:53:44,550 --> 00:53:42,280
just fell down a rabbit hole let me

1194
00:53:46,140 --> 00:53:44,560
respond to that I can listen I had less

1195
00:53:48,030 --> 00:53:46,150
because that leaves me kind of cold I

1196
00:53:51,900 --> 00:53:48,040
don't really excessive ring a bell

1197
00:53:53,940 --> 00:53:51,910
you're right Laura and in in fact that's

1198
00:53:56,940 --> 00:53:53,950
it's a point that's intriguing to me and

1199
00:53:59,220 --> 00:53:56,950
it's I'm still intrigued by and actually

1200
00:54:03,180 --> 00:53:59,230
doing some research and investigation on

1201
00:54:06,060 --> 00:54:03,190
that my pothinus would be artists and it

1202
00:54:09,089 --> 00:54:06,070
strictly bureaucratic when she was lost

1203
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:09,099
and then she was found by the Japanese

1204
00:54:14,180 --> 00:54:10,930
at that point in time the Japanese had

1205
00:54:17,570 --> 00:54:14,190
not formulated any sort of plan or idea

1206
00:54:21,210 --> 00:54:17,580
what would happen if in fact Earhart was

1207
00:54:24,810 --> 00:54:21,220
discovered in Marshall Islands so when

1208
00:54:26,849 --> 00:54:24,820
she did land on mili atoll and she was

1209
00:54:28,230 --> 00:54:26,859
picked up and it's alleged that she was

1210
00:54:30,150 --> 00:54:28,240
picked up by a fishing boat I don't

1211
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:30,160
think anybody has any concrete or

1212
00:54:34,290 --> 00:54:32,410
positive information that she was really

1213
00:54:36,270 --> 00:54:34,300
picked up by fishing boat she certainly

1214
00:54:38,329 --> 00:54:36,280
was picked up by the Japanese and she

1215
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:38,339
was transported as we know back to Joey

1216
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:41,170
but if she was picked up by fishing boat

1217
00:54:46,109 --> 00:54:44,050
regardless at that point in time and you

1218
00:54:47,910 --> 00:54:46,119
can visualize kind of things that are

1219
00:54:50,099 --> 00:54:47,920
happening in Washington DC today there

1220
00:54:53,609 --> 00:54:50,109
was no plan formulated there was no PR

1221
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:53,619
and nobody knew exactly what was going

1222
00:54:58,890 --> 00:54:56,050
to occur well obviously there was about

1223
00:55:00,480 --> 00:54:58,900
a radio message sent from petroleum to

1224
00:55:02,700 --> 00:55:00,490
Tokyo indicating we picked up this

1225
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:02,710
American a Beatrix Amelia Earhart and

1226
00:55:07,650 --> 00:55:05,650
everybody was in Rahway you know and

1227
00:55:09,599 --> 00:55:07,660
cheering and so to speak and with that

1228
00:55:11,670 --> 00:55:09,609
said and this is the point that you were

1229
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:11,680
trying to have right that's why we do

1230
00:55:16,020 --> 00:55:14,170
sorry this actually hit the Japanese

1231
00:55:18,300 --> 00:55:16,030
press and he's in a Japanese newspaper

1232
00:55:20,820 --> 00:55:18,310
one of the leading newspapers in Tokyo

1233
00:55:24,270 --> 00:55:20,830
that and really Erhard the famous

1234
00:55:28,079 --> 00:55:24,280
American Flyer was rescued by us meaning

1235
00:55:30,660 --> 00:55:28,089
the Japanese and this was sent out and

1236
00:55:35,250 --> 00:55:30,670
this was actually written in a news

1237
00:55:37,230 --> 00:55:35,260
article I believe on July 12 Oh 1930

1238
00:55:40,620 --> 00:55:37,240
the fact that they'd found million

1239
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:40,630
hardened Marshall Islands within a day

1240
00:55:44,849 --> 00:55:42,850
and a half they retracted that article

1241
00:55:48,390 --> 00:55:44,859
and said that was a mistake it did not

1242
00:55:49,380 --> 00:55:48,400
occur and that's where the the point

1243
00:55:51,630 --> 00:55:49,390
that you were trying to make there

1244
00:55:53,609 --> 00:55:51,640
originally it was all Cheers and

1245
00:55:55,290 --> 00:55:53,619
supposedly people were sharing on the

1246
00:55:57,599 --> 00:55:55,300
streets of Tokyo the fact that they

1247
00:56:00,390 --> 00:55:57,609
found Amelia Earhart and then it was

1248
00:56:04,260 --> 00:56:00,400
quietly discarded and said that that did

1249
00:56:06,090 --> 00:56:04,270
occur that is something that I'm looking

1250
00:56:09,450 --> 00:56:06,100
at I'm trying to get old that particular

1251
00:56:11,700 --> 00:56:09,460
newspaper from try 12 1937 to see in

1252
00:56:15,109 --> 00:56:11,710
fact exactly what they wrote and that

1253
00:56:18,210 --> 00:56:15,119
message somehow was transmitted by wire

1254
00:56:21,930 --> 00:56:18,220
to the Japanese embassy in the London

1255
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:21,940
and they in turn also apparently had

1256
00:56:27,930 --> 00:56:23,970
discussed this and it's a very confusing

1257
00:56:29,580 --> 00:56:27,940
but quietly Japanese diplomats decided

1258
00:56:31,470 --> 00:56:29,590
that there's no way that we're going to

1259
00:56:33,390 --> 00:56:31,480
tell the rest of the world that we had

1260
00:56:35,550 --> 00:56:33,400
got her meaning that they might if I

1261
00:56:37,349 --> 00:56:35,560
choose a spy or whatever I don't know

1262
00:56:39,090 --> 00:56:37,359
all right at that point of time they

1263
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:39,100
discounted all this information and they

1264
00:56:44,130 --> 00:56:41,530
denied everything about it so see

1265
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:44,140
there's still quite a bit of the story

1266
00:56:49,590 --> 00:56:48,010
that truly is a mystery and part of a

1267
00:56:51,540 --> 00:56:49,600
mystery that will probably never have

1268
00:56:53,270 --> 00:56:51,550
the whole answer to because there's no

1269
00:56:56,630 --> 00:56:53,280
one left to confirm it or disconfirm

1270
00:56:59,849 --> 00:56:56,640
whatever hypotheses we come up with

1271
00:57:02,550 --> 00:56:59,859
lesson and dick and Mike we've got to

1272
00:57:04,650 --> 00:57:02,560
take a break for about two three minutes

1273
00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:04,660
something like that I'm hoping you'll

1274
00:57:07,770 --> 00:57:06,250
stick around with me for the next hour

1275
00:57:11,010 --> 00:57:07,780
and we're going to open up the line for

1276
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:11,020
questions I'll give that number out so I

1277
00:57:15,090 --> 00:57:12,490
hope you can stick around are you

1278
00:57:17,609 --> 00:57:15,100
willing to do that I'll be here too okay

1279
00:57:19,380 --> 00:57:17,619
wonderful wonderful so let's take a

1280
00:57:21,570 --> 00:57:19,390
break you're listening to epic voyages

1281
00:57:24,769 --> 00:57:21,580
radio here on inception radio network

1282
00:57:30,479 --> 00:57:28,140
well welcome back everyone to epic

1283
00:57:34,079 --> 00:57:30,489
voyages radio here on inception radio

1284
00:57:36,479 --> 00:57:34,089
network we are having a very lively

1285
00:57:39,390 --> 00:57:36,489
discussion between Mike Campbell the

1286
00:57:42,380 --> 00:57:39,400
author of Amelia Earhart the truth at

1287
00:57:46,380 --> 00:57:42,390
last and Richard Speck who has recently

1288
00:57:49,140 --> 00:57:46,390
brought back to the US for analysis some

1289
00:57:52,589 --> 00:57:49,150
new artifacts that have been recovered

1290
00:57:55,349 --> 00:57:52,599
in the part of mili atoll and Marshall

1291
00:57:57,089 --> 00:57:55,359
Islands where we believe I'm going to

1292
00:57:59,039 --> 00:57:57,099
include me in that group because I've

1293
00:58:01,289 --> 00:57:59,049
done some homework and reading and I

1294
00:58:03,900 --> 00:58:01,299
agree with these guys that Amelia

1295
00:58:08,209 --> 00:58:03,910
Earhart and Fred Noonan touched down for

1296
00:58:11,549 --> 00:58:08,219
the last time on July 2nd of 1937 and

1297
00:58:17,279 --> 00:58:11,559
eventually were taken by the Japanese to

1298
00:58:21,150 --> 00:58:17,289
Saipan where probably at least Fred was

1299
00:58:23,130 --> 00:58:21,160
beheaded executed by the Japanese and a

1300
00:58:26,370 --> 00:58:23,140
million may have been to or she may have

1301
00:58:29,459 --> 00:58:26,380
contracted dysentery and and died not

1302
00:58:30,870 --> 00:58:29,469
that long after after Fred was executed

1303
00:58:35,370 --> 00:58:30,880
so that's what we're talking about

1304
00:58:37,650 --> 00:58:35,380
tonight and in the time that we spent

1305
00:58:41,279 --> 00:58:37,660
off air here we were talking about some

1306
00:58:44,489 --> 00:58:41,289
of the other tantalizing details and the

1307
00:58:45,839 --> 00:58:44,499
story let me read the telephone number

1308
00:58:48,839 --> 00:58:45,849
for anyone out there who would like to

1309
00:58:51,660 --> 00:58:48,849
join the discussion you can dial up

1310
00:58:54,930 --> 00:58:51,670
eight eight eight nine one nine two

1311
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:54,940
three five five or of course you can go

1312
00:58:59,910 --> 00:58:56,650
to the chat room at inception radio

1313
00:59:02,099 --> 00:58:59,920
network and type a question into the

1314
00:59:05,009 --> 00:59:02,109
chat room you can also go to Skype to

1315
00:59:09,150 --> 00:59:05,019
Inception Radio Network and type in a

1316
00:59:11,299 --> 00:59:09,160
question there to our producer Joe we're

1317
00:59:14,690 --> 00:59:11,309
going to be talking I think for the next

1318
00:59:18,269 --> 00:59:14,700
4050 minutes about what happened after

1319
00:59:21,809 --> 00:59:18,279
Amelia and Fred Noonan were taken to

1320
00:59:26,069 --> 00:59:21,819
Saipan one thing before we leave Milly

1321
00:59:28,799 --> 00:59:26,079
atoll though there's a tantalizing

1322
00:59:30,890 --> 00:59:28,809
detail about Ike and Mike you're going

1323
00:59:33,599 --> 00:59:30,900
to have to help me this one of the

1324
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:33,609
native eyewitnesses said that he

1325
00:59:40,110 --> 00:59:37,090
witnessed the two people coming on

1326
00:59:41,790 --> 00:59:40,120
and from this downed aircraft and one of

1327
00:59:47,700 --> 00:59:41,800
them had something that looked like a

1328
00:59:50,550 --> 00:59:47,710
little a little release or a small case

1329
00:59:55,860 --> 00:59:50,560
of some sort and went over to a tree

1330
00:59:58,080 --> 00:59:55,870
and buried it well go ahead okay Laurel

1331
00:59:59,610 --> 00:59:58,090
its what let's be precise for anybody

1332
01:00:02,850 --> 00:59:59,620
that's actually got my book it's on page

1333
01:00:04,650 --> 01:00:02,860
144 ok so what's it said that it's in

1334
01:00:06,690 --> 01:00:04,660
there and I'm going to read a little bit

1335
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:06,700
of and it says lorac was one of the two

1336
01:00:13,230 --> 01:00:09,250
witnesses that saw the Earhart plane

1337
01:00:15,180 --> 01:00:13,240
come down off of Bar Island law requests

1338
01:00:17,150 --> 01:00:15,190
it was 11 years old living on Millie

1339
01:00:20,250 --> 01:00:17,160
when he heard Lygia on tell his story

1340
01:00:23,490 --> 01:00:20,260
liza want is how he's how dicks pink

1341
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:23,500
says it down so that's where it will be

1342
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:25,570
he lies one was out fishing in the

1343
01:00:30,020 --> 01:00:27,730
lagoon they're building their bar when

1344
01:00:33,390 --> 01:00:30,030
he saw this big silver plane coming

1345
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:33,400
lorac told nag so this is oliver nags a

1346
01:00:38,550 --> 01:00:35,410
south african investigator who was over

1347
01:00:41,010 --> 01:00:38,560
there at million in the very early 1980s

1348
01:00:42,630 --> 01:00:41,020
it was lowdown this is what law rock

1349
01:00:44,250 --> 01:00:42,640
said it was lowdown and he could tell

1350
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:44,260
was in trouble because it made no noise

1351
01:00:48,030 --> 01:00:46,330
then it landed on the water next to the

1352
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:48,040
small iron when he pulled in his fishing

1353
01:00:51,750 --> 01:00:50,050
line it went quickly to see if he could

1354
01:00:53,340 --> 01:00:51,760
help when he got there he he saw these

1355
01:00:57,960 --> 01:00:53,350
these are strange people and one is a

1356
01:01:00,000 --> 01:00:57,970
woman he he watched as they buried

1357
01:01:01,650 --> 01:01:00,010
something in the coral under a canal

1358
01:01:02,940 --> 01:01:01,660
tree he could tell the man was hurt

1359
01:01:04,410 --> 01:01:02,950
because he was limping and there was

1360
01:01:06,270 --> 01:01:04,420
blood on his face and the woman was

1361
01:01:07,980 --> 01:01:06,280
helping him he waited there in his

1362
01:01:09,420 --> 01:01:07,990
hiding place until they saw the Japanese

1363
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:09,430
coming and then he left

1364
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:11,290
later we were told the people who

1365
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:14,050
crashed were Americans later on but

1366
01:01:21,420 --> 01:01:17,050
Barry goes back and searches that those

1367
01:01:23,070 --> 01:01:21,430
areas and finds a large rotting trunk of

1368
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:23,080
a tree that could have been a canal tree

1369
01:01:28,380 --> 01:01:25,570
and there was also a small canal growing

1370
01:01:31,980 --> 01:01:28,390
nearby according to Nags the metal

1371
01:01:33,420 --> 01:01:31,990
detector found a hard not of soil that

1372
01:01:35,820 --> 01:01:33,430
appeared to be growing at the root of

1373
01:01:37,170 --> 01:01:35,830
the tree cutting into it we discovered a

1374
01:01:39,540 --> 01:01:37,180
massive rust and what looked like a

1375
01:01:41,010 --> 01:01:39,550
hinge of sorts not believing the shape

1376
01:01:43,470 --> 01:01:41,020
of some could have once been the metal

1377
01:01:45,510 --> 01:01:43,480
cannister buried by the American Flyers

1378
01:01:47,250 --> 01:01:45,520
Maggs chipped away in his fun but

1379
01:01:49,740 --> 01:01:47,260
uncovered nothing more but he took it

1380
01:01:50,700 --> 01:01:49,750
back to South Africa it was analyzed by

1381
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:50,710
the metallurgical

1382
01:01:55,770 --> 01:01:52,810
apartment of the University of Capetown

1383
01:01:58,230 --> 01:01:55,780
and the results confirm that in section

1384
01:02:01,079 --> 01:01:58,240
the sample revealed what is described as

1385
01:02:03,180 --> 01:02:01,089
a pin cover rivet and body of the hinge

1386
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:03,190
in general that micro structures are

1387
01:02:07,500 --> 01:02:05,290
consistent what they find clean low

1388
01:02:10,020 --> 01:02:07,510
carbon steel indicating that good

1389
01:02:12,270 --> 01:02:10,030
technology was used in this manufacturer

1390
01:02:14,099 --> 01:02:12,280
bags regretted not bringing the entire

1391
01:02:16,079 --> 01:02:14,109
mass back for analysis but the hinge

1392
01:02:18,150 --> 01:02:16,089
quote could have come from up something

1393
01:02:20,430 --> 01:02:18,160
akin to a cashbox and could therefore

1394
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:20,440
quite easily be the canister to which

1395
01:02:26,190 --> 01:02:23,650
elijah one had referred and then in an

1396
01:02:30,390 --> 01:02:26,200
air hearts book last flight she actually

1397
01:02:33,270 --> 01:02:30,400
talks about the tin case that Fred had

1398
01:02:35,730 --> 01:02:33,280
purchased I believe it was us it was in

1399
01:02:37,890 --> 01:02:35,740
South Africa I'm not sure somewhere

1400
01:02:40,380 --> 01:02:37,900
along the way it purchased this this tin

1401
01:02:43,670 --> 01:02:40,390
case and she talked about it rattling so

1402
01:02:47,089 --> 01:02:43,680
that's what we think it was and I guess

1403
01:02:49,620 --> 01:02:47,099
they thought maybe he had money in it or

1404
01:02:51,420 --> 01:02:49,630
well she thought she might have had some

1405
01:02:55,380 --> 01:02:51,430
little bottle of booze in there she

1406
01:03:00,000 --> 01:02:55,390
sorted that playing personal stuff you

1407
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:00,010
know so that's good what else could have

1408
01:03:03,900 --> 01:03:02,770
been I mean to me I did a whole blog on

1409
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:03,910
this and there's a picture of it

1410
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:07,330
actually I have a picture of the the of

1411
01:03:12,420 --> 01:03:10,330
the piece that was that nags put in his

1412
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:12,430
book and that was analyzed it doesn't

1413
01:03:15,660 --> 01:03:14,170
look like anything you can't recognize

1414
01:03:17,849 --> 01:03:15,670
it as being a hinge

1415
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:17,859
apparently the soil over there is really

1416
01:03:22,770 --> 01:03:20,650
a dick would know better really nasty to

1417
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:22,780
anything that's buried under there yeah

1418
01:03:26,550 --> 01:03:24,730
it is it's and it's tough to dig through

1419
01:03:27,990 --> 01:03:26,560
to without tearing things apart really

1420
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:28,000
easy I mean the way that the you know

1421
01:03:32,430 --> 01:03:30,250
coconut tree grows full growth in less

1422
01:03:34,980 --> 01:03:32,440
than twenty years and they just wrapped

1423
01:03:38,070 --> 01:03:34,990
their roots around everything so it is

1424
01:03:40,339 --> 01:03:38,080
pretty tough Wow

1425
01:03:42,990 --> 01:03:40,349
when we were talking during the break

1426
01:03:46,339 --> 01:03:43,000
Wes we were talking about the trail of

1427
01:03:50,670 --> 01:03:46,349
blood from the Marshalls to Saipan and

1428
01:03:52,950 --> 01:03:50,680
what actually may have become of Amelia

1429
01:03:54,660 --> 01:03:52,960
and Fred do you want to pick up where we

1430
01:03:57,750 --> 01:03:54,670
were talking and say a little bit about

1431
01:04:00,630 --> 01:03:57,760
that we're sure that this is one of the

1432
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:00,640
the best parts of this mystery and it's

1433
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:01,930
actually almost something out of a movie

1434
01:04:05,700 --> 01:04:03,370
script

1435
01:04:08,430 --> 01:04:05,710
and that verb is as mike indicates in

1436
01:04:10,650 --> 01:04:08,440
his book there are numerous witnesses in

1437
01:04:14,310 --> 01:04:10,660
the Marshal Service gives me in Saipan

1438
01:04:16,830 --> 01:04:14,320
that saw a white Caucasian woman and a

1439
01:04:18,390 --> 01:04:16,840
white man and they didn't initially

1440
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:18,400
described in this Americans but they

1441
01:04:22,290 --> 01:04:20,770
said that they were white and they saw

1442
01:04:24,690 --> 01:04:22,300
them being in the custody of the

1443
01:04:28,290 --> 01:04:24,700
Japanese and the stories are a little

1444
01:04:29,820 --> 01:04:28,300
bit buried in compared in consensus in

1445
01:04:33,030 --> 01:04:29,830
the sense that they're in custody and

1446
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:33,040
that they're near the jail the bear pen

1447
01:04:36,180 --> 01:04:34,690
in jail in Saipan and they might have

1448
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:36,190
been there for a lengthy period of time

1449
01:04:41,100 --> 01:04:38,770
and as memories fade some of these

1450
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:41,110
witnesses said that they might have been

1451
01:04:43,980 --> 01:04:42,850
there for a short time some said they

1452
01:04:46,020 --> 01:04:43,990
thought they might have been there for a

1453
01:04:47,370 --> 01:04:46,030
lengthy period of time but there's no

1454
01:04:51,300 --> 01:04:47,380
doubt they're talking about the same

1455
01:04:54,150 --> 01:04:51,310
individuals and what's and what's really

1456
01:04:56,330 --> 01:04:54,160
interesting about this is that they all

1457
01:05:00,630 --> 01:04:56,340
met there this month this mod buys

1458
01:05:03,780 --> 01:05:00,640
wooden allegedly was beheaded and

1459
01:05:05,610 --> 01:05:03,790
shortly after either Miller heart or

1460
01:05:10,170 --> 01:05:05,620
this white woman died of dysentery and

1461
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:10,180
or she was beheaded as well and that's

1462
01:05:16,530 --> 01:05:12,370
it however the here's where the story

1463
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:16,540
gets great in 1944 and I have this date

1464
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:21,370
down in July 22nd 1944 three young

1465
01:05:26,910 --> 01:05:24,130
Marines from the 18th Marine Engineering

1466
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:26,920
Battalion were ordered by a marine

1467
01:05:32,190 --> 01:05:29,410
captain who is an intelligence captain

1468
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:32,200
his name was Tracy Griswold he said

1469
01:05:36,870 --> 01:05:34,570
accompany me I want you in to help me

1470
01:05:38,250 --> 01:05:36,880
with a little job and the next morning

1471
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:38,260
they left with him and he drove around

1472
01:05:44,130 --> 01:05:40,330
and I should handed up on the outskirts

1473
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:44,140
of a remote native cemetery and he had a

1474
01:05:48,510 --> 01:05:47,050
map and he told them you guys go this

1475
01:05:50,250 --> 01:05:48,520
way and I'll go this way and when you

1476
01:05:52,290 --> 01:05:50,260
see an area it looks like a fresh grave

1477
01:05:54,510 --> 01:05:52,300
of some sort let me know and one of them

1478
01:05:56,820 --> 01:05:54,520
found that grave or he thought it was

1479
01:05:58,920 --> 01:05:56,830
potentially great and he said what about

1480
01:06:02,400 --> 01:05:58,930
here captain captain said looks at his

1481
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:02,410
map yeah this looks like it's it and you

1482
01:06:08,940 --> 01:06:05,290
have these guys start digging and as a

1483
01:06:11,310 --> 01:06:08,950
dug down to about their waist level one

1484
01:06:13,290 --> 01:06:11,320
of them calls up captain what are we

1485
01:06:14,850 --> 01:06:13,300
doing here and the capital was style

1486
01:06:16,180 --> 01:06:14,860
done and said and he ever heard about

1487
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:16,190
any Earhart

1488
01:06:21,910 --> 01:06:19,970
and they sort of course keep diggin he

1489
01:06:25,210 --> 01:06:21,920
eventually came up with the remains of

1490
01:06:27,279 --> 01:06:25,220
two individual skeletons or skeletal

1491
01:06:29,289 --> 01:06:27,289
remains unfortunately they didn't

1492
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:29,299
clearly identify how much of the

1493
01:06:33,130 --> 01:06:31,250
skeletal remains remain under the fact

1494
01:06:35,559 --> 01:06:33,140
that they there's old siding amount of

1495
01:06:38,140 --> 01:06:35,569
bones and in one one account even

1496
01:06:40,020 --> 01:06:38,150
indicated there was some possible tissue

1497
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:40,030
or it was still attached to the bones

1498
01:06:45,010 --> 01:06:43,010
well the captain took that material put

1499
01:06:49,270 --> 01:06:45,020
it in some sort of a canister and they

1500
01:06:51,670 --> 01:06:49,280
left and as you read as you know law in

1501
01:06:54,039 --> 01:06:51,680
Saigon is book he clearly documents this

1502
01:06:55,630 --> 01:06:54,049
and you talk to this captain who was

1503
01:06:57,579 --> 01:06:55,640
involved in at the time and he had

1504
01:07:01,029 --> 01:06:57,589
denied this his name was Tracy Cruz were

1505
01:07:03,069 --> 01:07:01,039
all a lot of Uri Pennsylvania and he

1506
01:07:07,329 --> 01:07:03,079
became somewhat friends with regular and

1507
01:07:09,460 --> 01:07:07,339
they basically agreed that I'm not the

1508
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:09,470
man and Garner was probably convinced

1509
01:07:13,059 --> 01:07:11,210
said Tracy robust because what was

1510
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:13,069
telling the truth the two Marines told

1511
01:07:16,270 --> 01:07:14,690
an entirely different story they hadn't

1512
01:07:17,950 --> 01:07:16,280
seen each other in 20 some years and

1513
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:17,960
you're interviewed separately by garner

1514
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:20,690
and later by a group from Cleveland Ohio

1515
01:07:25,569 --> 01:07:23,450
and it was clear that Tracy Griswold was

1516
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:25,579
the one they actually had photos of him

1517
01:07:30,039 --> 01:07:27,410
and you know please talk to photoline

1518
01:07:32,109 --> 01:07:30,049
and they said this is the man who told

1519
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:32,119
us to dig up this particular grave and

1520
01:07:35,859 --> 01:07:34,250
these are the bones of you dug up and he

1521
01:07:38,349 --> 01:07:35,869
gave them to him and we never saw this

1522
01:07:41,559 --> 01:07:38,359
man again and that was the beginning of

1523
01:07:43,569 --> 01:07:41,569
that particular part of this miliary

1524
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:43,579
hard saga and it goes on from there

1525
01:07:47,079 --> 01:07:45,170
because those are bones when they came

1526
01:07:49,870 --> 01:07:47,089
back nobody knows what happened to him

1527
01:07:52,180 --> 01:07:49,880
okay and the bones were actually read up

1528
01:07:54,370 --> 01:07:52,190
up again little remnants of the bone to

1529
01:07:57,849 --> 01:07:54,380
that same grave site by a group from

1530
01:07:59,230 --> 01:07:57,859
Cleveland Ohio in 1968 and when he

1531
01:08:01,750 --> 01:07:59,240
brought those bones back to the United

1532
01:08:04,359 --> 01:08:01,760
States anthropologist said there clearly

1533
01:08:06,460 --> 01:08:04,369
at least in his opinion anyway and it

1534
01:08:09,039 --> 01:08:06,470
was just his opinion that there from a

1535
01:08:11,950 --> 01:08:09,049
white man and a white woman and until

1536
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:11,960
partially cremated with the advent of

1537
01:08:15,069 --> 01:08:12,890
DNA

1538
01:08:16,539 --> 01:08:15,079
about 9 years later these same guys from

1539
01:08:18,519 --> 01:08:16,549
Cleveland went back to the

1540
01:08:21,570 --> 01:08:18,529
anthropologist to retrieve those bones

1541
01:08:23,559 --> 01:08:21,580
can now have a tested for DNA

1542
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:23,569
unfortunately the anthropologist had

1543
01:08:29,230 --> 01:08:26,449
died and the bones had disappeared from

1544
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:29,240
the Ohio Historical Museum

1545
01:08:35,050 --> 01:08:32,930
it's it's a fascinating topic gosh it

1546
01:08:37,270 --> 01:08:35,060
you're reminding me of the the stories

1547
01:08:40,450 --> 01:08:37,280
that I'm familiar with about the remains

1548
01:08:42,850 --> 01:08:40,460
of giants that were excavated around

1549
01:08:45,580 --> 01:08:42,860
North America in the 1800s and either

1550
01:08:47,440 --> 01:08:45,590
Carnegie Mellon or the Smithsonian came

1551
01:08:49,090 --> 01:08:47,450
and said oh this is wonderful we're

1552
01:08:51,190 --> 01:08:49,100
going to take them back and analyze them

1553
01:08:52,570 --> 01:08:51,200
and we'll get back to you and now they

1554
01:08:55,230 --> 01:08:52,580
say we don't know what you're talking

1555
01:08:58,750 --> 01:08:55,240
about we never took any remains back

1556
01:09:00,790 --> 01:08:58,760
very similar yeah well what you're

1557
01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:00,800
describing this this reminds me I'm

1558
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:02,330
telling you folks there's so many

1559
01:09:08,710 --> 01:09:06,610
tantalizing details in Mike's book and

1560
01:09:12,070 --> 01:09:08,720
gosh if I had time to go all the way

1561
01:09:14,440 --> 01:09:12,080
back to Fred Garner's book and start

1562
01:09:18,790 --> 01:09:14,450
from there it would probably be even

1563
01:09:22,740 --> 01:09:18,800
more instructional but Mike in your blog

1564
01:09:26,590 --> 01:09:22,750
recently you you published a story about

1565
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:26,600
Amelia's mother and a letter she sent to

1566
01:09:32,710 --> 01:09:30,050
I think it was was at Netta snook the

1567
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:32,720
woman who taught amelia had a fly and

1568
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:36,650
and she's talking about how her tone and

1569
01:09:40,950 --> 01:09:38,690
yeah i encourage people to go to Mike's

1570
01:09:46,630 --> 01:09:40,960
blog and I put the links up here it's

1571
01:09:49,690 --> 01:09:46,640
WWF Heart Truth calm and look for the

1572
01:09:52,180 --> 01:09:49,700
letter from actually Laurel it's it's

1573
01:09:54,550 --> 01:09:52,190
Earhart truth wordpress.com

1574
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:54,560
okay I thought the levels are the same

1575
01:09:58,360 --> 01:09:56,690
go ahead well you can get you can get

1576
01:10:02,070 --> 01:09:58,370
there from the website but the actual

1577
01:10:04,660 --> 01:10:02,080
blog site is HTTPS Earhart truth

1578
01:10:08,410 --> 01:10:04,670
wordpress.com or you can go to Earhart

1579
01:10:11,230 --> 01:10:08,420
truce comm and click on blog okay okay

1580
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:11,240
well the and I'll finish the gist of the

1581
01:10:18,150 --> 01:10:13,610
story but Mike has details on it it

1582
01:10:21,550 --> 01:10:18,160
sounds as if Amelia Earhart's mother

1583
01:10:24,150 --> 01:10:21,560
really believed that she was picked up

1584
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:24,160
by the Japanese taken to Saipan

1585
01:10:30,040 --> 01:10:27,370
initially they thought that she would be

1586
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:30,050
sent home and she'd be okay and that

1587
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:31,130
never happened

1588
01:10:36,430 --> 01:10:33,650
and I was left almost with the feeling

1589
01:10:39,130 --> 01:10:36,440
Mike that maybe someone made a deal with

1590
01:10:41,410 --> 01:10:39,140
her that if we give you her remains so

1591
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:41,420
that you can put her to rest will you

1592
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:42,570
please shut up about

1593
01:10:48,830 --> 01:10:45,810
and not bring it up anymore now react to

1594
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:48,840
that anything is possible

1595
01:10:55,490 --> 01:10:52,170
real what else could not we you know

1596
01:11:00,620 --> 01:10:55,500
that this letter that Amy Earhart wrote

1597
01:11:04,430 --> 01:11:00,630
the neatest Nick snook is so full of not

1598
01:11:07,069 --> 01:11:04,440
only information that's likely accurate

1599
01:11:10,430 --> 01:11:07,079
it's also full of information that might

1600
01:11:16,010 --> 01:11:10,440
not be accurate at all and so it's it

1601
01:11:18,109 --> 01:11:16,020
really takes some real study and and the

1602
01:11:21,319 --> 01:11:18,119
letter can be deconstructed in so many

1603
01:11:23,569 --> 01:11:21,329
different ways and in fact you when you

1604
01:11:26,149 --> 01:11:23,579
said that that she said that

1605
01:11:30,709 --> 01:11:26,159
Amy Aaron Amy Otis Earhart was was

1606
01:11:33,319 --> 01:11:30,719
Amelia's mother and she never in her

1607
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:33,329
Leonard Anita snook never wrote the word

1608
01:11:38,270 --> 01:11:35,610
Saipan she never said that amelia was

1609
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:38,280
taken this IPAN she only said that she

1610
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:41,610
knew that the Japs had her and tortured

1611
01:11:46,339 --> 01:11:43,770
and murdered our brave fliers I'm

1612
01:11:48,350 --> 01:11:46,349
quoting now you know Nita up to the time

1613
01:11:52,069 --> 01:11:48,360
the Japs tortured and murdered our brave

1614
01:11:54,229 --> 01:11:52,079
fliers I hope for a million's return you

1615
01:11:57,350 --> 01:11:54,239
know and no but she never says Saipan

1616
01:12:00,319 --> 01:11:57,360
and she also says that Amelia sent SOS

1617
01:12:05,089 --> 01:12:00,329
is an SOS after she went down in the

1618
01:12:07,790 --> 01:12:05,099
marshals uh you know this ties in with

1619
01:12:11,060 --> 01:12:07,800
less a strong belief in the post what

1620
01:12:14,470 --> 01:12:11,070
they call the post loss sicknesses host

1621
01:12:18,260 --> 01:12:14,480
loss air a lot of transmissions yes and

1622
01:12:19,970 --> 01:12:18,270
which is if she landed on dry land she

1623
01:12:22,459 --> 01:12:19,980
would have been able to send radio

1624
01:12:25,129 --> 01:12:22,469
signals now other people such as Paul

1625
01:12:28,430 --> 01:12:25,139
Radford a radio expert from Pan Am in

1626
01:12:30,649 --> 01:12:28,440
the early days who was a really smart

1627
01:12:33,109 --> 01:12:30,659
about radio and he wrote a book too

1628
01:12:34,790 --> 01:12:33,119
called Amelia Earhart's radio and

1629
01:12:37,100 --> 01:12:34,800
Radford doesn't believe she had enough

1630
01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:37,110
power in her radio to reach hardly

1631
01:12:42,890 --> 01:12:40,170
anywhere so there's different opinions

1632
01:12:45,290 --> 01:12:42,900
this is a very controversial table topic

1633
01:12:48,649 --> 01:12:45,300
of you know in this egg is the post-loss

1634
01:12:50,899 --> 01:12:48,659
radioed there was so many different ones

1635
01:12:53,419 --> 01:12:50,909
they could have all been true but they

1636
01:12:55,280 --> 01:12:53,429
it's very but it I don't know I don't

1637
01:12:56,210 --> 01:12:55,290
know what to say that some assailant

1638
01:12:58,130 --> 01:12:56,220
very interested

1639
01:13:00,560 --> 01:12:58,140
what I want to talk some about that

1640
01:13:01,910 --> 01:13:00,570
wasn't there a teenage girl in Florida

1641
01:13:04,790 --> 01:13:01,920
who claimed that she heard her

1642
01:13:07,670 --> 01:13:04,800
transmission saying oh yes that's that's

1643
01:13:10,970 --> 01:13:07,680
the tigar thing that comes from the the

1644
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:10,980
other side and that's was a her that's

1645
01:13:16,130 --> 01:13:14,610
no crackpot stuff well I best doesn't

1646
01:13:17,660 --> 01:13:16,140
even deserve to be discussed I don't

1647
01:13:20,300 --> 01:13:17,670
know that hasn't really been documented

1648
01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:20,310
that's just a claim only by tigar that I

1649
01:13:24,710 --> 01:13:22,770
know of there's many other ones that are

1650
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:24,720
much more credible much incredible in

1651
01:13:28,070 --> 01:13:26,610
that less you want to talk about that

1652
01:13:30,470 --> 01:13:28,080
yeah what do you have to say about the

1653
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:30,480
radio transmissions well first of all in

1654
01:13:34,340 --> 01:13:32,370
a comment of what you mentioned were and

1655
01:13:37,700 --> 01:13:34,350
I think you're spot on and I've always

1656
01:13:40,070 --> 01:13:37,710
wondered about the aspect of of Amelia's

1657
01:13:42,440 --> 01:13:40,080
mother and throughout the late thirties

1658
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:42,450
into the mid 40s until nineteen

1659
01:13:47,630 --> 01:13:44,010
forty-seven forty-eight forty-nine she

1660
01:13:49,430 --> 01:13:47,640
was adamant that Amelia good daughter

1661
01:13:53,210 --> 01:13:49,440
had been captured by the Japanese and

1662
01:13:55,100 --> 01:13:53,220
all the sudden she changed and I agree

1663
01:13:56,870 --> 01:13:55,110
with you in a half head course there's

1664
01:13:58,910 --> 01:13:56,880
nothing to back up what I'm saying but

1665
01:14:01,910 --> 01:13:58,920
more than likely this is my thought

1666
01:14:03,980 --> 01:14:01,920
because I'm retired for relations and I

1667
01:14:06,020 --> 01:14:03,990
was a high level management manager of

1668
01:14:07,130 --> 01:14:06,030
the government agency and that's the

1669
01:14:09,110 --> 01:14:07,140
sort of thing that would have occurred

1670
01:14:11,690 --> 01:14:09,120
somebody eventually would have said we

1671
01:14:14,750 --> 01:14:11,700
have to say something to her and the

1672
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:14,760
idea of the government returning her

1673
01:14:19,220 --> 01:14:16,890
bones and allowing that to be a quite

1674
01:14:22,460 --> 01:14:19,230
burial somewhere in Massachusetts it

1675
01:14:24,850 --> 01:14:22,470
rings true to me so for what you just

1676
01:14:27,110 --> 01:14:24,860
mentioned I think that there is possibly

1677
01:14:29,240 --> 01:14:27,120
might be something to that we'll never

1678
01:14:31,940 --> 01:14:29,250
be able to prove it and therefore then

1679
01:14:34,190 --> 01:14:31,950
Amy would have been satisfied that our

1680
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:34,200
daughter could rightfully come back to

1681
01:14:38,630 --> 01:14:36,690
United States and is not at peace so

1682
01:14:40,490 --> 01:14:38,640
it's good that in mind I believe I

1683
01:14:43,040 --> 01:14:40,500
really think that that's less plausible

1684
01:14:45,260 --> 01:14:43,050
answer this could also explain why

1685
01:14:49,700 --> 01:14:45,270
Muriel never made a whole lot of noise

1686
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:49,710
about it either or your sister yeah no

1687
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:52,770
that's correct and in fact in 1960 all

1688
01:14:58,730 --> 01:14:56,010
right so again what's in 1963 when

1689
01:15:00,890 --> 01:14:58,740
Amelia Earhart realized at on divine is

1690
01:15:04,070 --> 01:15:00,900
going to go over to Saipan and possibly

1691
01:15:05,390 --> 01:15:04,080
into Tokyo as well the research and

1692
01:15:08,459 --> 01:15:05,400
defined out what happened to Amelia

1693
01:15:12,779 --> 01:15:11,159
Amelia's sister wrote a letter to the US

1694
01:15:14,310 --> 01:15:12,789
ambassador in Tokyo said I'm going to

1695
01:15:16,469 --> 01:15:14,320
give you quote a heads up and that's

1696
01:15:18,089 --> 01:15:16,479
fine to another's there is going to be

1697
01:15:19,739 --> 01:15:18,099
people coming over here to investigating

1698
01:15:22,229 --> 01:15:19,749
me here I want to let you know that

1699
01:15:24,209 --> 01:15:22,239
they're coming and she writes and I have

1700
01:15:25,679 --> 01:15:24,219
a copy of this letter by the way and she

1701
01:15:27,569 --> 01:15:25,689
writes this letter in such a way that

1702
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:27,579
you would think that she knew exactly

1703
01:15:33,750 --> 01:15:31,090
what happened to her sister and she was

1704
01:15:35,310 --> 01:15:33,760
now satisfied in at peace with it but

1705
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:35,320
she was warning the US government

1706
01:15:39,779 --> 01:15:36,610
officials that there's going to be some

1707
01:15:42,029 --> 01:15:39,789
nosy researchers coming around and that

1708
01:15:44,310 --> 01:15:42,039
she had could have been talking about a

1709
01:15:46,679 --> 01:15:44,320
vine less she couldn't talk about the

1710
01:15:48,239 --> 01:15:46,689
vine he'd never went to Japan no he

1711
01:15:49,890 --> 01:15:48,249
didn't but he had written letters at

1712
01:15:53,819 --> 01:15:49,900
that one time and he was in the press

1713
01:15:57,479 --> 01:15:53,829
yeah and letters to Michiko's Ikeda in

1714
01:15:59,040 --> 01:15:57,489
the mid-70s she was in too young I'm

1715
01:16:00,779 --> 01:15:59,050
just telling you that from what the

1716
01:16:02,459 --> 01:16:00,789
stuff that I had Mike and I had this I

1717
01:16:03,989 --> 01:16:02,469
know what you you've been holding out on

1718
01:16:07,649 --> 01:16:03,999
me less I didn't know what he thought

1719
01:16:09,509 --> 01:16:07,659
was funny my queenly door surprise you

1720
01:16:13,040 --> 01:16:09,519
see yes this is business inside

1721
01:16:15,330 --> 01:16:13,050
researchers baseball with energy no yes

1722
01:16:17,580 --> 01:16:15,340
unless it's been hold man I didn't know

1723
01:16:20,009 --> 01:16:17,590
that I can't I just surmised that

1724
01:16:21,779 --> 01:16:20,019
somebody might have told muriel about

1725
01:16:23,489 --> 01:16:21,789
this the same way that that somebody

1726
01:16:25,409 --> 01:16:23,499
might have told Amy Earhart about it

1727
01:16:26,790 --> 01:16:25,419
because I just didn't want I grew that

1728
01:16:29,850 --> 01:16:26,800
she because she wrote this letter to the

1729
01:16:31,919 --> 01:16:29,860
US ambassador over there in 1963 giving

1730
01:16:33,469 --> 01:16:31,929
them a heads up and to the fact that

1731
01:16:37,100 --> 01:16:33,479
there was going to be people

1732
01:16:39,419 --> 01:16:37,110
investigating the her sister again and

1733
01:16:40,770 --> 01:16:39,429
he was written as I said in just a

1734
01:16:43,439 --> 01:16:40,780
manner that you'd kind of wonder why

1735
01:16:44,969 --> 01:16:43,449
would she be doing this and it's the

1736
01:16:47,640 --> 01:16:44,979
kind of a person who's in the know and

1737
01:16:49,830 --> 01:16:47,650
in now she's satisfied so Laura I think

1738
01:16:51,569 --> 01:16:49,840
your thoughts are right on and there's

1739
01:16:53,850 --> 01:16:51,579
probably some beloved you to it it's

1740
01:16:57,689 --> 01:16:53,860
just my little Scorpio hunch you know

1741
01:17:01,319 --> 01:16:57,699
I'm good so now Eleanor Roosevelt was a

1742
01:17:03,750 --> 01:17:01,329
very close friend of Amelia's right yes

1743
01:17:08,850 --> 01:17:03,760
could she don't late role in trying to

1744
01:17:10,830 --> 01:17:08,860
get information to Amelia's mother I'll

1745
01:17:12,810 --> 01:17:10,840
respond I'm not going sure she was as

1746
01:17:16,589 --> 01:17:12,820
close as what people have written about

1747
01:17:18,839 --> 01:17:16,599
her no Nana it was was a friend I got

1748
01:17:21,870 --> 01:17:18,849
maybe through the National Archives and

1749
01:17:23,610 --> 01:17:21,880
through the FDR library in Hyde Park

1750
01:17:26,250 --> 01:17:23,620
all twenty-five or thirty letters of

1751
01:17:29,430 --> 01:17:26,260
correspondence between a million and an

1752
01:17:31,919 --> 01:17:29,440
Eleanor Roosevelt and it was a congenial

1753
01:17:34,350 --> 01:17:31,929
personal relationship I don't know

1754
01:17:39,149 --> 01:17:34,360
whether they're that terrible closely

1755
01:17:41,310 --> 01:17:39,159
certainly close could you know Eleanor

1756
01:17:43,530 --> 01:17:41,320
Roosevelt having inside information and

1757
01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:43,540
pass it on or whispered it to other

1758
01:17:47,790 --> 01:17:45,370
people about what was happening or what

1759
01:17:49,830 --> 01:17:47,800
she knew that's possible but you don't

1760
01:17:52,590 --> 01:17:49,840
understand if you're at the historian of

1761
01:17:54,810 --> 01:17:52,600
that era but Eleanor Roosevelt did not

1762
01:17:57,120 --> 01:17:54,820
have that close of a personal

1763
01:17:58,860 --> 01:17:57,130
relationship what her husband was doing

1764
01:18:02,430 --> 01:17:58,870
when he was a president United States

1765
01:18:06,840 --> 01:18:02,440
right and and you have to take a look at

1766
01:18:08,669 --> 01:18:06,850
that because he he had only a very small

1767
01:18:10,290 --> 01:18:08,679
circle of friends and she was not one of

1768
01:18:12,629 --> 01:18:10,300
the people that he was intimate with as

1769
01:18:14,250 --> 01:18:12,639
far as his imparting personal knowledge

1770
01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:14,260
yeah she would have had it well don't

1771
01:18:18,780 --> 01:18:16,090
belong something if she had found it out

1772
01:18:20,070 --> 01:18:18,790
right yes and was no doubt that if she

1773
01:18:22,140 --> 01:18:20,080
thought it out something independently

1774
01:18:24,570 --> 01:18:22,150
or if there was some other aide or

1775
01:18:26,010 --> 01:18:24,580
associate of her husband's and whispered

1776
01:18:27,060 --> 01:18:26,020
something to her she would have come

1777
01:18:28,919 --> 01:18:27,070
running through the back door to

1778
01:18:30,750 --> 01:18:28,929
resident said what about this and then

1779
01:18:32,790 --> 01:18:30,760
he in turn was untruthful her there's no

1780
01:18:35,300 --> 01:18:32,800
question about that well he would not

1781
01:18:38,580 --> 01:18:35,310
had given her information of this type

1782
01:18:40,709 --> 01:18:38,590
knowing who she was and the fact that

1783
01:18:42,780 --> 01:18:40,719
she was a champion of women's rights

1784
01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:42,790
long before the women's rights was a

1785
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:46,090
movement so I don't know whether Eleanor

1786
01:18:50,129 --> 01:18:48,370
Roosevelt unless somebody whispered in a

1787
01:18:52,350 --> 01:18:50,139
year and there's no question but that

1788
01:18:54,090 --> 01:18:52,360
could have happened and then she would

1789
01:18:56,310 --> 01:18:54,100
have pressured her husband and be having

1790
01:18:58,290 --> 01:18:56,320
some sort of a response that she would

1791
01:19:00,689 --> 01:18:58,300
have some knowledge yourself I'm not

1792
01:19:02,250 --> 01:19:00,699
sure that so for right now we're going

1793
01:19:08,160 --> 01:19:02,260
to let that stay in the category of

1794
01:19:15,030 --> 01:19:08,170
conjecture I think for what was that

1795
01:19:18,899 --> 01:19:15,040
going to ask you it was a really good

1796
01:19:21,510 --> 01:19:18,909
question too I'll think of it in a

1797
01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:21,520
minute that's why I like to take notes I

1798
01:19:32,130 --> 01:19:28,390
someone in the chatroom is talking about

1799
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:32,140
how Emilia used to go by the nickname of

1800
01:19:40,480 --> 01:19:36,970
mealy and it reminds me of the Islanders

1801
01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:40,490
hearing or talking about Melia Melia

1802
01:19:46,030 --> 01:19:43,970
when when someone overheard it no it was

1803
01:19:49,030 --> 01:19:46,040
still a man Amram that overheard the

1804
01:19:52,210 --> 01:19:49,040
Japanese on board the Koshu referencing

1805
01:19:54,330 --> 01:19:52,220
her meeow meeow oh yeah when he was

1806
01:19:57,340 --> 01:19:54,340
treating the scar on fred Noonan's

1807
01:19:59,650 --> 01:19:57,350
forehead and his knee and that's where

1808
01:20:02,380 --> 01:19:59,660
that name came from okay now that's a

1809
01:20:04,150 --> 01:20:02,390
different I'm sorry - go ahead oh no I

1810
01:20:06,430 --> 01:20:04,160
was just going to bring a few point

1811
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:06,440
about you know bilham on on and he was

1812
01:20:09,520 --> 01:20:07,730
probably one of the best eyewitnesses

1813
01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:09,530
the time that came out of the Marshalls

1814
01:20:14,050 --> 01:20:10,730
the best probably that came out of the

1815
01:20:19,890 --> 01:20:14,060
Marshalls and that was when the ship the

1816
01:20:22,780 --> 01:20:19,900
kosher Maru was it at Elliot and my DVD

1817
01:20:25,300 --> 01:20:22,790
with Charlie Dominic is his uncle Tamaki

1818
01:20:26,710 --> 01:20:25,310
was on the refueling crew of that boat

1819
01:20:30,550 --> 01:20:26,720
and he gives a pretty good description

1820
01:20:34,420 --> 01:20:30,560
of the story from bill Montaner Billman

1821
01:20:36,280 --> 01:20:34,430
was a very very reputable person in the

1822
01:20:40,990 --> 01:20:36,290
Marshall Islands up until his death in

1823
01:20:42,790 --> 01:20:41,000
the 90s he was a very prominent citizen

1824
01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:42,800
there did a lot of good things for the

1825
01:20:48,310 --> 01:20:46,850
community very well-respected and I you

1826
01:20:50,080 --> 01:20:48,320
know there's just no way this guy would

1827
01:20:53,740 --> 01:20:50,090
have made that story up I mean he just

1828
01:20:55,180 --> 01:20:53,750
it's great it's the way he tells us he

1829
01:20:58,990 --> 01:20:55,190
was interviewed by a lot of people

1830
01:21:00,580 --> 01:20:59,000
beginning with Gerner of in 1975 les

1831
01:21:03,220 --> 01:21:00,590
says that he has the tape of that

1832
01:21:05,290 --> 01:21:03,230
interview actually which is something I

1833
01:21:07,540 --> 01:21:05,300
was never able to get my hands so unless

1834
01:21:12,100 --> 01:21:07,550
like incredible researcher does all kind

1835
01:21:15,580 --> 01:21:12,110
of incredible work and bill Primack in

1836
01:21:18,340 --> 01:21:15,590
1989 was one of the last people to

1837
01:21:21,010 --> 01:21:18,350
interview bill Amman and Bill Amman said

1838
01:21:23,260 --> 01:21:21,020
that they called the Japanese crewmen on

1839
01:21:25,420 --> 01:21:23,270
board the Koshu actually bill maan

1840
01:21:27,370 --> 01:21:25,430
didn't say kosher but just ship Japanese

1841
01:21:32,980 --> 01:21:27,380
ship but he said they called the lady

1842
01:21:36,520 --> 01:21:32,990
Melia m ee l why a Melia that was what

1843
01:21:38,140 --> 01:21:36,530
the prior bill Amman told Primack I want

1844
01:21:39,470 --> 01:21:38,150
to make sure the listeners understand

1845
01:21:43,820 --> 01:21:39,480
that when these guys are talking

1846
01:21:46,160 --> 01:21:43,830
about Philemon he was a basically an EMT

1847
01:21:48,500 --> 01:21:46,170
he was a medic that was brought on board

1848
01:21:50,390 --> 01:21:48,510
to treat the injuries at Fred Noonan had

1849
01:21:53,060 --> 01:21:50,400
right that's right I have to have

1850
01:21:58,340 --> 01:21:53,070
Japanese have marshalese it was fluent

1851
01:22:01,340 --> 01:21:58,350
in marshalese and and Japanese and and

1852
01:22:02,540 --> 01:22:01,350
it was a corpsman in at that time yeah

1853
01:22:04,850 --> 01:22:02,550
you had to really have your stuff

1854
01:22:07,460 --> 01:22:04,860
together he was he was a very smart

1855
01:22:10,100 --> 01:22:07,470
young man Wow

1856
01:22:11,600 --> 01:22:10,110
I found my pin and I made my note guys

1857
01:22:14,500 --> 01:22:11,610
and I remember what I was going to ask

1858
01:22:16,820 --> 01:22:14,510
you about there's a lot of debate over

1859
01:22:19,490 --> 01:22:16,830
and this relates back to the radio

1860
01:22:21,440 --> 01:22:19,500
transmissions before the plane touched

1861
01:22:26,450 --> 01:22:21,450
down somewhere there's a lot of debate

1862
01:22:30,260 --> 01:22:26,460
over whether she Amelia was possibly not

1863
01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:30,270
really accidentally lost but kind of

1864
01:22:34,220 --> 01:22:32,370
cruising around and looking from a

1865
01:22:37,790 --> 01:22:34,230
bird's-eye view of what was going on as

1866
01:22:40,070 --> 01:22:37,800
if she was reconnoitering and I know

1867
01:22:44,330 --> 01:22:40,080
there's a look this is probably all

1868
01:22:47,300 --> 01:22:44,340
conjecture but it seems crazy to me that

1869
01:22:49,610 --> 01:22:47,310
she had a navigator on board with her

1870
01:22:51,680 --> 01:22:49,620
who knew Morse code even though she was

1871
01:22:54,740 --> 01:22:51,690
not what i would say fluent in Morse

1872
01:22:58,490 --> 01:22:54,750
code but I mean how could they have

1873
01:23:01,729 --> 01:22:58,500
possibly gotten lost and gone for hours

1874
01:23:04,340 --> 01:23:01,739
without making radio contact and they

1875
01:23:06,380 --> 01:23:04,350
only stayed online long enough to say a

1876
01:23:09,290 --> 01:23:06,390
few things but not long enough for the

1877
01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:09,300
attacker which was the US carrier that

1878
01:23:13,220 --> 01:23:11,850
was trying to track them they couldn't

1879
01:23:14,870 --> 01:23:13,230
even get a fix on them because they

1880
01:23:16,420 --> 01:23:14,880
didn't stay on the radio long enough do

1881
01:23:19,550 --> 01:23:16,430
you think it's possible that they were

1882
01:23:21,890 --> 01:23:19,560
that Amelia and Fred were actually kind

1883
01:23:24,380 --> 01:23:21,900
of flying around poking their nose in

1884
01:23:25,940 --> 01:23:24,390
something in the Japanese that's part of

1885
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:25,950
why they thought maybe they were spying

1886
01:23:32,090 --> 01:23:29,610
on them this is a business this is the

1887
01:23:34,610 --> 01:23:32,100
huge mystery this is the real mystery of

1888
01:23:37,850 --> 01:23:34,620
the Earhart matter in the this is the

1889
01:23:40,910 --> 01:23:37,860
real mystery what was she doing and why

1890
01:23:43,190 --> 01:23:40,920
did she land at mili okay this end and

1891
01:23:45,050 --> 01:23:43,200
the other stuff is all just smoke and

1892
01:23:48,290 --> 01:23:45,060
mirrors about what happened to her and

1893
01:23:51,110 --> 01:23:48,300
the mystery is and we still don't know

1894
01:23:52,939 --> 01:23:51,120
so go ahead last I know les has a very

1895
01:23:56,870 --> 01:23:52,949
definite ideas on that

1896
01:23:59,380 --> 01:23:56,880
I don't know and Laura interior point

1897
01:24:03,050 --> 01:23:59,390
conjecture is probably the proper term

1898
01:24:04,790 --> 01:24:03,060
there's a strong evidence the fact that

1899
01:24:07,040 --> 01:24:04,800
she might have been potentially what you

1900
01:24:10,130 --> 01:24:07,050
call involving a gray intelligence

1901
01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:10,140
mission as issue is not and the

1902
01:24:14,570 --> 01:24:11,850
rationale behind of course is that

1903
01:24:17,780 --> 01:24:14,580
you're right how could Fred Noonan

1904
01:24:21,790 --> 01:24:17,790
become off-course by two three four five

1905
01:24:24,439 --> 01:24:21,800
six hundred miles it seems impossible

1906
01:24:26,959 --> 01:24:24,449
the only island that she could have

1907
01:24:29,689 --> 01:24:26,969
possibly wanted to take a look at would

1908
01:24:32,270 --> 01:24:29,699
have been truck and truck was considered

1909
01:24:33,709 --> 01:24:32,280
the Gibraltar of the Pacific and it was

1910
01:24:35,240 --> 01:24:33,719
an area that was an enigma for the

1911
01:24:37,250 --> 01:24:35,250
United States we knew nothing about it

1912
01:24:39,830 --> 01:24:37,260
we really flapped knew nothing about it

1913
01:24:41,000 --> 01:24:39,840
and I'd seen intelligence reports we

1914
01:24:43,550 --> 01:24:41,010
were desperately trying to find

1915
01:24:45,169 --> 01:24:43,560
information about truck ISM really is

1916
01:24:47,540 --> 01:24:45,179
nineteen twenty-seven twenty-eight

1917
01:24:49,550 --> 01:24:47,550
twenty-nine we knew very little but we

1918
01:24:51,380 --> 01:24:49,560
did know from radio transmissions that

1919
01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:51,390
it was a large Japanese naval

1920
01:24:55,580 --> 01:24:53,850
installation less I'm going to enter

1921
01:24:57,080 --> 01:24:55,590
less I want to interrupt you for just a

1922
01:24:59,000 --> 01:24:57,090
second and tell you that I've read

1923
01:25:02,660 --> 01:24:59,010
recently that truck was considered the

1924
01:25:07,250 --> 01:25:02,670
Pearl Harbor of the Japanese is that

1925
01:25:09,770 --> 01:25:07,260
right yes well not not well yes or no I

1926
01:25:12,860 --> 01:25:09,780
mean it was that big a destination for

1927
01:25:16,160 --> 01:25:12,870
them oh it was huger yeah the truck

1928
01:25:18,290 --> 01:25:16,170
Lagoon is huge and it's deep once before

1929
01:25:21,800 --> 01:25:18,300
it could actually accommodated as many

1930
01:25:25,370 --> 01:25:21,810
as fifty to sixty ocean-going naval

1931
01:25:27,830 --> 01:25:25,380
ships at a time we didn't know that we

1932
01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:27,840
had no idea we had we did not know what

1933
01:25:32,060 --> 01:25:30,090
was there and would we have wanted to

1934
01:25:34,100 --> 01:25:32,070
have known absolutely because we're

1935
01:25:37,340 --> 01:25:34,110
making attempts to know what was going

1936
01:25:39,820 --> 01:25:37,350
on in the mandated Islands as early as

1937
01:25:42,290 --> 01:25:39,830
you know in the late twenties but

1938
01:25:42,860 --> 01:25:42,300
getting back to the original story is

1939
01:25:45,919 --> 01:25:42,870
that

1940
01:25:47,689 --> 01:25:45,929
Earhart was going to take a look the

1941
01:25:48,650 --> 01:25:47,699
only way she could have done that was

1942
01:25:50,689 --> 01:25:48,660
before dark

1943
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:50,699
and granted people will say that they

1944
01:25:54,380 --> 01:25:52,530
could have thrown out these what they

1945
01:25:56,120 --> 01:25:54,390
call these burst balloons were they

1946
01:25:58,970 --> 01:25:56,130
would have had these flashlights and

1947
01:26:01,040 --> 01:25:58,980
then it would then lighten up and it

1948
01:26:03,200 --> 01:26:01,050
then could have taken photographs I I

1949
01:26:05,450 --> 01:26:03,210
think that is highly implausible she

1950
01:26:05,870 --> 01:26:05,460
wasn't technically feasible and would

1951
01:26:07,970 --> 01:26:05,880
require

1952
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:07,980
equipment that everybody would have seen

1953
01:26:11,720 --> 01:26:10,290
on border plane so the only thing she

1954
01:26:14,180 --> 01:26:11,730
could have done was try to reach

1955
01:26:17,450 --> 01:26:14,190
someplace before dark and snap some

1956
01:26:19,220 --> 01:26:17,460
photos just to satisfy the US Navy that

1957
01:26:22,399 --> 01:26:19,230
in fact that place might have been

1958
01:26:23,629 --> 01:26:22,409
fortified and truck will doin would have

1959
01:26:26,060 --> 01:26:23,639
been it and she would have gotten over

1960
01:26:28,760 --> 01:26:26,070
truck if in fact she was on some sort of

1961
01:26:30,860 --> 01:26:28,770
automation around 6:30 the 7:00 p.m.

1962
01:26:33,200 --> 01:26:30,870
that evening prior to who are being

1963
01:26:36,410 --> 01:26:33,210
bossed will that occur I don't know

1964
01:26:38,209 --> 01:26:36,420
nobody knows what she did operate a

1965
01:26:41,540 --> 01:26:38,219
radio in such a manner that makes you

1966
01:26:43,310 --> 01:26:41,550
wonder why she got lost and none of her

1967
01:26:46,669 --> 01:26:43,320
transmissions for more than ten seconds

1968
01:26:48,649 --> 01:26:46,679
for short bursts and it would been

1969
01:26:51,649 --> 01:26:48,659
impossible for anybody to take a clicks

1970
01:26:53,330 --> 01:26:51,659
on her including the Japanese so was she

1971
01:26:56,030 --> 01:26:53,340
forewarned that if she transmitted in

1972
01:26:57,500 --> 01:26:56,040
long lengthy defenses with the Japanese

1973
01:26:59,330 --> 01:26:57,510
would it not exactly where she was at

1974
01:27:02,840 --> 01:26:59,340
that's possible it would haven't you

1975
01:27:04,760 --> 01:27:02,850
haven't told them so um your incent

1976
01:27:07,910 --> 01:27:04,770
theory that she was on a spy mission and

1977
01:27:09,260 --> 01:27:07,920
you know it's it's a plausible theory hi

1978
01:27:12,229 --> 01:27:09,270
I don't have any information on that

1979
01:27:15,169 --> 01:27:12,239
someone in the chat room is asking was

1980
01:27:17,290 --> 01:27:15,179
her radio in her airplane unfamiliar or

1981
01:27:20,810 --> 01:27:17,300
new to her

1982
01:27:22,669 --> 01:27:20,820
no thank you for answering it I'm not a

1983
01:27:25,399 --> 01:27:22,679
radio expert but I know it but she was

1984
01:27:27,189 --> 01:27:25,409
never reputed to be very good with radio

1985
01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:27,199
but I wouldn't say that it was new or

1986
01:27:33,140 --> 01:27:30,090
unfamiliar to her she had been at least

1987
01:27:35,689 --> 01:27:33,150
using it for us since her first attempt

1988
01:27:39,500 --> 01:27:35,699
you know her since they first began in

1989
01:27:41,450 --> 01:27:39,510
March of 1937 if not earlier she was

1990
01:27:43,939 --> 01:27:41,460
used to the radio she didn't like using

1991
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:43,949
the radio she had a reputation as not

1992
01:27:48,649 --> 01:27:45,570
being as being kind of loosey-goosey

1993
01:27:50,620 --> 01:27:48,659
with the radio but no I don't I wouldn't

1994
01:27:52,520 --> 01:27:50,630
say she was unfamiliar with it either I

1995
01:27:54,560 --> 01:27:52,530
agree with that I agree with Mike

1996
01:27:56,120 --> 01:27:54,570
statement she had been using this radio

1997
01:27:58,850 --> 01:27:56,130
for several months so there's no

1998
01:28:00,770 --> 01:27:58,860
question it's not just Hannah Doyle but

1999
01:28:02,479 --> 01:28:00,780
there's a lot of eyewitnesses said that

2000
01:28:04,910 --> 01:28:02,489
she only had a rudimentary knowledge of

2001
01:28:06,260 --> 01:28:04,920
Morse code and the general listener

2002
01:28:10,010 --> 01:28:06,270
today the people listening to your

2003
01:28:11,660 --> 01:28:10,020
broadcast tonight that's not the kind of

2004
01:28:12,979 --> 01:28:11,670
broadcasting that was occurred on that

2005
01:28:16,149 --> 01:28:12,989
airplane that people have to understand

2006
01:28:19,430 --> 01:28:16,159
but in that time in 1937 any sort of

2007
01:28:20,959 --> 01:28:19,440
logical reasonable transmission of

2008
01:28:22,490 --> 01:28:20,969
which would have done by Morris code

2009
01:28:25,370 --> 01:28:22,500
they would not have been done by boys

2010
01:28:28,370 --> 01:28:25,380
and she was almost unfamiliar with

2011
01:28:30,590 --> 01:28:28,380
Morris code supposedly she even had a

2012
01:28:33,320 --> 01:28:30,600
rudimentary knowledge and maybe maybe

2013
01:28:35,630 --> 01:28:33,330
she could transmit four or five six

2014
01:28:38,150 --> 01:28:35,640
eight words a minute but that it doesn't

2015
01:28:39,740 --> 01:28:38,160
seem even that it could been done she

2016
01:28:42,320 --> 01:28:39,750
just did not have any knowledge of that

2017
01:28:45,800 --> 01:28:42,330
and Noonan admitted that he was also

2018
01:28:47,720 --> 01:28:45,810
very unfamiliar with Morse code they

2019
01:28:49,729 --> 01:28:47,730
announced before they even started that

2020
01:28:52,310 --> 01:28:49,739
the all the radio communications would

2021
01:28:55,130 --> 01:28:52,320
be in voice that was who I got was the

2022
01:28:58,490 --> 01:28:55,140
plan you only had agreed upon frequency

2023
01:29:00,470 --> 01:28:58,500
so she kind of didn't follow along with

2024
01:29:02,560 --> 01:29:00,480
what the agreed-upon frequencies were

2025
01:29:05,780 --> 01:29:02,570
supposed to be modulus but the

2026
01:29:08,479 --> 01:29:05,790
communications was a disaster they were

2027
01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:08,489
never on the same pages some people say

2028
01:29:13,700 --> 01:29:10,530
that they had that they had different

2029
01:29:16,100 --> 01:29:13,710
understandings of the frequencies that

2030
01:29:20,060 --> 01:29:16,110
were to be used and the times were all

2031
01:29:21,680 --> 01:29:20,070
messed up golf end of William Dalton on

2032
01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:21,690
one of the radio men aboard the attacker

2033
01:29:27,709 --> 01:29:24,330
told Paul Radford that he sent Amelia at

2034
01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:27,719
least 50 messages on the tray on the

2035
01:29:34,070 --> 01:29:30,770
frequencies that which we were agreed to

2036
01:29:37,430 --> 01:29:34,080
3105 and 6210 not one of his messages

2037
01:29:38,180 --> 01:29:37,440
was was responded to I mean it was just

2038
01:29:40,370 --> 01:29:38,190
a disaster

2039
01:29:43,070 --> 01:29:40,380
she acted the whole time as if she

2040
01:29:45,920 --> 01:29:43,080
really didn't want to talk to anybody it

2041
01:29:48,110 --> 01:29:45,930
was so bizarre as to be be uh you know

2042
01:29:50,750 --> 01:29:48,120
just off the charts her behavior was

2043
01:29:52,939 --> 01:29:50,760
completely it it didn't make sense at

2044
01:29:54,500 --> 01:29:52,949
all for somebody trying to find a little

2045
01:29:56,150 --> 01:29:54,510
speck of land in the middle of Pacific

2046
01:29:58,360 --> 01:29:56,160
that had never been done before

2047
01:30:01,220 --> 01:29:58,370
that flight had never been made before

2048
01:30:03,320 --> 01:30:01,230
no something else was going on we just

2049
01:30:05,750 --> 01:30:03,330
don't know what we just don't know what

2050
01:30:09,800 --> 01:30:05,760
I don't remember who it is in your blog

2051
01:30:12,650 --> 01:30:09,810
Mike who made the comments about her

2052
01:30:15,709 --> 01:30:12,660
behavior on the radio but he pointed out

2053
01:30:17,660 --> 01:30:15,719
you know if you're a pilot and you're

2054
01:30:20,750 --> 01:30:17,670
out in the middle of nowhere Pacific

2055
01:30:22,610 --> 01:30:20,760
Ocean and you've only got so much fuel

2056
01:30:25,130 --> 01:30:22,620
and you're well aware of that and you

2057
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:25,140
think you're off course the last thing

2058
01:30:29,450 --> 01:30:27,449
you're going to do is come on to the

2059
01:30:31,790 --> 01:30:29,460
radio for 10 seconds and then turn it

2060
01:30:33,240 --> 01:30:31,800
off for six hours you're going on saying

2061
01:30:35,370 --> 01:30:33,250
finally find me fine

2062
01:30:36,570 --> 01:30:35,380
Here I am can anybody hear my voice and

2063
01:30:39,210 --> 01:30:36,580
you're not going to put the radio down

2064
01:30:41,310 --> 01:30:39,220
until someone answers in that chapter

2065
01:30:44,970 --> 01:30:41,320
where we talk about the final flight in

2066
01:30:49,200 --> 01:30:44,980
the truth at last but I take a lot of

2067
01:30:52,200 --> 01:30:49,210
dill Primax first-person commentary it

2068
01:30:54,480 --> 01:30:52,210
was a great researcher he produced

2069
01:30:57,390 --> 01:30:54,490
incredible newsletters during his time

2070
01:30:59,130 --> 01:30:57,400
1989 to 2000 and Bill Primack was a

2071
01:31:02,340 --> 01:30:59,140
pilot he talked about the time and he

2072
01:31:05,460 --> 01:31:02,350
almost went down that he was lost and he

2073
01:31:08,850 --> 01:31:05,470
said he would know that he stayed glued

2074
01:31:11,040 --> 01:31:08,860
to that radio the whole time you know he

2075
01:31:13,620 --> 01:31:11,050
was afraid for his life and that's the

2076
01:31:16,350 --> 01:31:13,630
radio was his life you know and that and

2077
01:31:19,440 --> 01:31:16,360
so he made aid and whatever he needed to

2078
01:31:22,620 --> 01:31:19,450
do to let the Coast Guard whoever was

2079
01:31:23,730 --> 01:31:22,630
down there to know he did everything

2080
01:31:25,950 --> 01:31:23,740
that she didn't do

2081
01:31:27,840 --> 01:31:25,960
let me give out our phone number again

2082
01:31:30,120 --> 01:31:27,850
in case anybody would like to dial in

2083
01:31:32,340 --> 01:31:30,130
we've only got about 20 minutes left not

2084
01:31:35,520 --> 01:31:32,350
quite eight eight eight nine one nine

2085
01:31:37,440 --> 01:31:35,530
two three five five your chance to talk

2086
01:31:40,590 --> 01:31:37,450
one-on-one with Mike Campbell

2087
01:31:44,340 --> 01:31:40,600
Richard spank and les Kinney about the

2088
01:31:45,300 --> 01:31:44,350
the real story about Amelia Earhart and

2089
01:31:48,360 --> 01:31:45,310
Fred noonan's

2090
01:31:51,870 --> 01:31:48,370
last flight here's a question for you

2091
01:31:53,970 --> 01:31:51,880
someone in the chat room is wondering if

2092
01:31:55,410 --> 01:31:53,980
she was really all that good a pilot did

2093
01:31:58,610 --> 01:31:55,420
she really know what she was doing

2094
01:32:04,190 --> 01:31:58,620
flying the Elector can any of you make a

2095
01:32:06,510 --> 01:32:04,200
reply to that I want mustard dip do this

2096
01:32:07,890 --> 01:32:06,520
you know there's no question that she

2097
01:32:10,650 --> 01:32:07,900
wasn't the greatest pilot in the world

2098
01:32:12,480 --> 01:32:10,660
at the same time Fred Noonan swore by

2099
01:32:13,650 --> 01:32:12,490
her 'i said anybody who could fly and

2100
01:32:16,170 --> 01:32:13,660
this is prior to the flight being

2101
01:32:18,360 --> 01:32:16,180
finished by the way the last flight but

2102
01:32:20,910 --> 01:32:18,370
anybody could fly the way she did and

2103
01:32:22,700 --> 01:32:20,920
her own personal trainer Paul Mann said

2104
01:32:24,960 --> 01:32:22,710
the same thing that she was a good pilot

2105
01:32:26,700 --> 01:32:24,970
Charles Lindbergh made his take in one

2106
01:32:29,910 --> 01:32:26,710
time and he said this quote he says

2107
01:32:32,550 --> 01:32:29,920
Amelia Earhart made a good landing once

2108
01:32:34,950 --> 01:32:32,560
in the course as a joke it was at an

2109
01:32:36,920 --> 01:32:34,960
embedded dinner in some sort but she had

2110
01:32:38,640 --> 01:32:36,930
to be a good pilot to be what she

2111
01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:38,650
attempted to accomplish she's no

2112
01:32:42,450 --> 01:32:39,610
question about that

2113
01:32:44,340 --> 01:32:42,460
was she the best pilot no of course not

2114
01:32:45,779 --> 01:32:44,350
and was she a little bit rough on the

2115
01:32:48,359 --> 01:32:45,789
controls and must must

2116
01:32:50,399 --> 01:32:48,369
because she had a very hard landing when

2117
01:32:51,750 --> 01:32:50,409
she landed in Miami just at the

2118
01:32:54,419 --> 01:32:51,760
beginning of her world flight would

2119
01:32:56,669 --> 01:32:54,429
correct up that back window that tiger

2120
01:32:59,339 --> 01:32:56,679
is now assuming that was a cover over by

2121
01:33:01,350 --> 01:32:59,349
Willem them but she was a good pilot and

2122
01:33:07,080 --> 01:33:01,360
she crashed on takeoff from Luke field

2123
01:33:08,129 --> 01:33:07,090
to reveal a secret anyway yeah the

2124
01:33:11,430 --> 01:33:08,139
reason she tell you that according to

2125
01:33:13,709 --> 01:33:11,440
Paul Mantz Jim hatin has a Guyler that

2126
01:33:14,910 --> 01:33:13,719
helped me out a lot here he knew Paul

2127
01:33:16,680 --> 01:33:14,920
Mantz and talked on the telephone

2128
01:33:19,859 --> 01:33:16,690
several times Paul Mantz and Paul Mantz

2129
01:33:23,879 --> 01:33:19,869
had told Jim Amelia was it was not a

2130
01:33:25,680 --> 01:33:23,889
very do not was during her takeoff she

2131
01:33:27,509 --> 01:33:25,690
had a rough time she would tend to chase

2132
01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:27,519
instead of using her rudder she would

2133
01:33:32,069 --> 01:33:30,010
tend to chase the airplane straight with

2134
01:33:33,330 --> 01:33:32,079
the throttles which ended up one of the

2135
01:33:35,939 --> 01:33:33,340
reasons she looped the plane on the

2136
01:33:37,140 --> 01:33:35,949
ground at Luke field when she was taking

2137
01:33:38,729 --> 01:33:37,150
off on her first attempt around the

2138
01:33:40,109 --> 01:33:38,739
world so and there's a lot of people to

2139
01:33:41,520 --> 01:33:40,119
say a lot of you know some people say

2140
01:33:43,979 --> 01:33:41,530
she was great a lot other people say oh

2141
01:33:44,520 --> 01:33:43,989
no she wasn't that good I mean she had

2142
01:33:48,720 --> 01:33:44,530
guts

2143
01:33:50,459 --> 01:33:48,730
thing she would i briefed there was no

2144
01:33:52,770 --> 01:33:50,469
one braver there's no question about

2145
01:33:54,299 --> 01:33:52,780
absolutely absolutely a she why she's

2146
01:33:56,100 --> 01:33:54,309
the greatest pilot no she wasn't the

2147
01:33:58,950 --> 01:33:56,110
greatest bout but she certainly wasn't

2148
01:34:02,040 --> 01:33:58,960
the worst that's for sure see solo

2149
01:34:04,080 --> 01:34:02,050
flight across the Atlantic in 1932 is an

2150
01:34:05,939 --> 01:34:04,090
amazing story she was she didn't have

2151
01:34:07,620 --> 01:34:05,949
Fred Noonan with her then she was all

2152
01:34:09,479 --> 01:34:07,630
alone as she went across the Atlantic

2153
01:34:11,819 --> 01:34:09,489
she was the second person in history to

2154
01:34:14,279 --> 01:34:11,829
do it you know that's that's all right

2155
01:34:14,850 --> 01:34:14,289
hey that's what made her star that's

2156
01:34:17,580 --> 01:34:14,860
right

2157
01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:17,590
if any happened to have any idea of how

2158
01:34:23,569 --> 01:34:20,530
many hours in flight she had logged by

2159
01:34:27,209 --> 01:34:23,579
the time she was on this final flight

2160
01:34:28,709 --> 01:34:27,219
not a clear III think that I read some

2161
01:34:31,109 --> 01:34:28,719
more there was not that much in

2162
01:34:32,850 --> 01:34:31,119
something like 2500 to 3000 dollars

2163
01:34:35,549 --> 01:34:32,860
something that nature now then she flew

2164
01:34:37,560 --> 01:34:35,559
she she flew for a purpose and she flew

2165
01:34:41,339 --> 01:34:37,570
for reason uh she didn't have an

2166
01:34:44,759 --> 01:34:41,349
overwhelming amount of pipeline I read

2167
01:34:46,770 --> 01:34:44,769
in another female aviators book that she

2168
01:34:49,379 --> 01:34:46,780
gets from like meaning behavior to rule

2169
01:34:51,870 --> 01:34:49,389
the book of $11,000 and their card had

2170
01:34:55,229 --> 01:34:51,880
about half of it and she was a close

2171
01:34:57,029 --> 01:34:55,239
personal friend so she did not have an

2172
01:34:59,390 --> 01:34:57,039
overwhelming model he said one thing

2173
01:35:01,640 --> 01:34:59,400
that has to be brought out we got

2174
01:35:03,680 --> 01:35:01,650
finger flying ability and this has been

2175
01:35:06,110 --> 01:35:03,690
written out twice and I heard it twice

2176
01:35:07,820 --> 01:35:06,120
once from somebody or Paul Mantz wrote

2177
01:35:09,980 --> 01:35:07,830
and then somebody else read but she had

2178
01:35:12,560 --> 01:35:09,990
a tendency to drift left when she's

2179
01:35:15,050 --> 01:35:12,570
flying and if that's the case that she

2180
01:35:17,210 --> 01:35:15,060
was flying from Lane eginning to Holland

2181
01:35:20,480 --> 01:35:17,220
and she was drifting what well that

2182
01:35:23,330 --> 01:35:20,490
would make it she would be heading

2183
01:35:26,960 --> 01:35:23,340
towards an area that she would intersect

2184
01:35:28,490 --> 01:35:26,970
up in the Marshall Islands it's possible

2185
01:35:30,200 --> 01:35:28,500
and she wasn't greatest pallet but she

2186
01:35:33,860 --> 01:35:30,210
was a good pilot no question about that

2187
01:35:36,260 --> 01:35:33,870
okay this Dakar she on her cross the

2188
01:35:38,720 --> 01:35:36,270
Atlantic on that same flight she drifted

2189
01:35:40,700 --> 01:35:38,730
left a hundred and fifty miles she

2190
01:35:43,580 --> 01:35:40,710
missed a car by 150 miles to the north

2191
01:35:46,370 --> 01:35:43,590
on the satellite when we know that we

2192
01:35:48,770 --> 01:35:46,380
know from the from the weather patterns

2193
01:35:50,240 --> 01:35:48,780
of July 2nd nineteen thirty seconds she

2194
01:35:52,130 --> 01:35:50,250
quiet she called in on radio

2195
01:35:54,650 --> 01:35:52,140
transmissions I guess she was a thousand

2196
01:35:58,790 --> 01:35:54,660
feet she was underneath a cloud cover

2197
01:36:01,820 --> 01:35:58,800
and the Taska was sitting in clear blue

2198
01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:01,830
sky in the water at Howland Island

2199
01:36:07,790 --> 01:36:04,410
the weather was was worse to the

2200
01:36:10,070 --> 01:36:07,800
northwest hmm that gives us another hand

2201
01:36:13,970 --> 01:36:10,080
of where she probably how she was off

2202
01:36:16,520 --> 01:36:13,980
course less where in relation to the

2203
01:36:18,590 --> 01:36:16,530
Marshall Islands and where Helen is and

2204
01:36:22,180 --> 01:36:18,600
where she was coming from from New

2205
01:36:24,920 --> 01:36:22,190
Guinea where would truck be truck a tow

2206
01:36:27,020 --> 01:36:24,930
truck is definitely to the left and she

2207
01:36:29,720 --> 01:36:27,030
would have suited how to lead leymah

2208
01:36:33,590 --> 01:36:29,730
Guinea and can actually maybe go about

2209
01:36:34,760 --> 01:36:33,600
15 degrees left or west in order to hit

2210
01:36:38,210 --> 01:36:34,770
up the truck and then she would have

2211
01:36:40,940 --> 01:36:38,220
went on a line sort of diagonally from

2212
01:36:43,880 --> 01:36:40,950
truck heading back down towards Holland

2213
01:36:46,250 --> 01:36:43,890
Island Tripoli 200 miles

2214
01:36:49,550 --> 01:36:46,260
it would have been 3,200 miles if she

2215
01:36:51,500 --> 01:36:49,560
went to truck yeah anyway I've had

2216
01:36:54,050 --> 01:36:51,510
enough gas for that right well

2217
01:36:57,020 --> 01:36:54,060
theoretically she would theoretically it

2218
01:36:59,480 --> 01:36:57,030
was 4,000 miles max but that's only

2219
01:37:01,640 --> 01:36:59,490
theoretically probably not that's

2220
01:37:04,250 --> 01:37:01,650
another one of a lot of pilots pilots

2221
01:37:05,900 --> 01:37:04,260
will tell you that as you know if you're

2222
01:37:07,640 --> 01:37:05,910
a pilot I am NOT a pilot but if you're a

2223
01:37:10,100 --> 01:37:07,650
pilot and she's starting off with a full

2224
01:37:11,510 --> 01:37:10,110
load and if she's able to have any sort

2225
01:37:12,919 --> 01:37:11,520
of prevailing winds and if she went

2226
01:37:15,469 --> 01:37:12,929
towards truck she would have

2227
01:37:16,939 --> 01:37:15,479
prevailing winds and that point in time

2228
01:37:18,830 --> 01:37:16,949
I really helped her out but as of course

2229
01:37:21,379 --> 01:37:18,840
is the fuel is dispensed the plane

2230
01:37:23,120 --> 01:37:21,389
widens and all of a sudden she she was

2231
01:37:25,609 --> 01:37:23,130
if there's one thing she was excellent

2232
01:37:29,419 --> 01:37:25,619
and it was noted she was excellent at

2233
01:37:31,459 --> 01:37:29,429
conserving fuel and everybody knew that

2234
01:37:33,949 --> 01:37:31,469
and she was really really good at

2235
01:37:36,049 --> 01:37:33,959
manipulating the fuel and consequently

2236
01:37:37,609 --> 01:37:36,059
there is a possibility if shooted up on

2237
01:37:39,109 --> 01:37:37,619
four thousand miles she certainly would

2238
01:37:42,229 --> 01:37:39,119
have been able to do exactly what you

2239
01:37:44,810 --> 01:37:42,239
want me to do and truck would have been

2240
01:37:47,089 --> 01:37:44,820
in line with her drifting to the left as

2241
01:37:48,859 --> 01:37:47,099
a matter of habit well it would have had

2242
01:37:50,839 --> 01:37:48,869
Olympic probably got under deliberately

2243
01:37:52,339 --> 01:37:50,849
yeah sure Mike's right should have

2244
01:37:54,529 --> 01:37:52,349
definitely deliberately bound the truck

2245
01:37:57,049 --> 01:37:54,539
and then and then swung around and

2246
01:37:59,179 --> 01:37:57,059
heading back towards definition point of

2247
01:38:01,029 --> 01:37:59,189
homeland interesting there's all

2248
01:38:03,979 --> 01:38:01,039
speculation

2249
01:38:06,229 --> 01:38:03,989
well we've got about I'm going to say

2250
01:38:08,000 --> 01:38:06,239
about ten or twelve minutes left before

2251
01:38:10,009 --> 01:38:08,010
we're going to have to close this up so

2252
01:38:13,459 --> 01:38:10,019
let me go to each one of you one at a

2253
01:38:16,879 --> 01:38:13,469
time and did you've been very quiet this

2254
01:38:18,890 --> 01:38:16,889
hour start with you and take a couple of

2255
01:38:20,810 --> 01:38:18,900
minutes and just kind of summarize your

2256
01:38:22,699 --> 01:38:20,820
viewpoint and where we are with this and

2257
01:38:26,060 --> 01:38:22,709
what needs to be done next to answer all

2258
01:38:27,949 --> 01:38:26,070
these questions well what I've got are

2259
01:38:30,890 --> 01:38:27,959
the pieces that I picked up through my

2260
01:38:34,040 --> 01:38:30,900
different expeditions and what I'm doing

2261
01:38:36,830 --> 01:38:34,050
right now is I am making I'm having

2262
01:38:39,949 --> 01:38:36,840
these pieces scan I'm in the process of

2263
01:38:43,729 --> 01:38:39,959
right now especially the one dust cover

2264
01:38:46,279 --> 01:38:43,739
because it's been very dysphoria and

2265
01:38:50,000 --> 01:38:46,289
what I'm doing is building an electronic

2266
01:38:51,609 --> 01:38:50,010
3d model of this part scanning it and

2267
01:38:54,229 --> 01:38:51,619
then it's going to be flattened and then

2268
01:38:56,739 --> 01:38:54,239
reshaped the electronic model not the

2269
01:39:01,189 --> 01:38:56,749
piece the electronic model so we can

2270
01:39:02,870 --> 01:39:01,199
exact duplicate of what that piece was

2271
01:39:05,629 --> 01:39:02,880
originally shaped at and matched that

2272
01:39:10,489 --> 01:39:05,639
with whatever records that we can find

2273
01:39:12,290 --> 01:39:10,499
from the Goodyear air wheel and and as

2274
01:39:14,239 --> 01:39:12,300
far as the other little plate that we

2275
01:39:17,870 --> 01:39:14,249
you know we thought that may have first

2276
01:39:19,790 --> 01:39:17,880
been an APU plate cover what we're doing

2277
01:39:22,669 --> 01:39:19,800
is we're looking at other L tens and

2278
01:39:24,799 --> 01:39:22,679
seeing what they have for inspection

2279
01:39:26,330 --> 01:39:24,809
plates most of the inspection places

2280
01:39:31,040 --> 01:39:26,340
we've seen have been a little

2281
01:39:34,790 --> 01:39:31,050
bigger not the same size as this one

2282
01:39:36,560 --> 01:39:34,800
however you know when her plane was in

2283
01:39:38,120 --> 01:39:36,570
Miami there was different work done with

2284
01:39:40,640 --> 01:39:38,130
the antennas and such and this could

2285
01:39:46,010 --> 01:39:40,650
have easily been a little cover to put

2286
01:39:47,540 --> 01:39:46,020
over an antenna plate or something and

2287
01:39:48,470 --> 01:39:47,550
just a little inspection port on the

2288
01:39:50,479 --> 01:39:48,480
wing

2289
01:39:52,939 --> 01:39:50,489
in the front or on the rear we don't you

2290
01:39:55,790 --> 01:39:52,949
know who knows so what we're trying to

2291
01:39:58,580 --> 01:39:55,800
do is just take care of that and we're

2292
01:40:01,879 --> 01:39:58,590
going to also analyze the paint that is

2293
01:40:04,430 --> 01:40:01,889
on that little cover so I've definitely

2294
01:40:06,140 --> 01:40:04,440
got my work cut out for me I would have

2295
01:40:10,700 --> 01:40:06,150
probably been on a little bit faster but

2296
01:40:12,560 --> 01:40:10,710
I kind of drained a lot of my fun so far

2297
01:40:14,540 --> 01:40:12,570
on these trips that I've made of the

2298
01:40:16,790 --> 01:40:14,550
Marshall Island plus you've got a

2299
01:40:18,770 --> 01:40:16,800
regular day job teaching school well I

2300
01:40:21,379 --> 01:40:18,780
got a couple different jobs that I do is

2301
01:40:24,890 --> 01:40:21,389
selling my boat kits all right around

2302
01:40:26,990 --> 01:40:24,900
the globe so it's it's it keeps me quite

2303
01:40:30,290 --> 01:40:27,000
busy but the story the way it was just

2304
01:40:31,700 --> 01:40:30,300
placed into my to my to my lap I you

2305
01:40:33,169 --> 01:40:31,710
know I didn't go out there as I

2306
01:40:37,040 --> 01:40:33,179
mentioned in the first day I didn't go

2307
01:40:40,129 --> 01:40:37,050
out looking for this story this for this

2308
01:40:42,379 --> 01:40:40,139
story found me and came to me and and

2309
01:40:45,320 --> 01:40:42,389
I'm telling it for the people of the

2310
01:40:47,540 --> 01:40:45,330
Marshall Islands and you know I know so

2311
01:40:50,510 --> 01:40:47,550
many so many people they're their family

2312
01:40:54,410 --> 01:40:50,520
now and they all tell me the stories of

2313
01:40:57,220 --> 01:40:54,420
Bill among and it was great getting to

2314
01:41:00,050 --> 01:40:57,230
know Reverend Lodge Awan this year whose

2315
01:41:02,689 --> 01:41:00,060
father was actually a witness to the

2316
01:41:04,669 --> 01:41:02,699
landing so it's really a fantastic

2317
01:41:06,530 --> 01:41:04,679
country and Martin Daley has done a ton

2318
01:41:10,100 --> 01:41:06,540
to help I mean it wasn't for Martin

2319
01:41:11,359 --> 01:41:10,110
Daley in the Indies trader to help us do

2320
01:41:14,209 --> 01:41:11,369
what we did down there we probably

2321
01:41:17,839 --> 01:41:14,219
wouldn't have what we have so that's

2322
01:41:18,649 --> 01:41:17,849
that's basically where I am with this

2323
01:41:20,720 --> 01:41:18,659
right now

2324
01:41:22,490 --> 01:41:20,730
with time and money I'm trying to put it

2325
01:41:25,399 --> 01:41:22,500
all together and you're going to be

2326
01:41:28,100 --> 01:41:25,409
updating all of us who are all of us

2327
01:41:30,140 --> 01:41:28,110
enquiring minds so to speak so you're

2328
01:41:32,689 --> 01:41:30,150
going to be updating us on the blog or

2329
01:41:35,450 --> 01:41:32,699
have we know when you've you flooded on

2330
01:41:37,850 --> 01:41:35,460
it I'm always in touch with Mike and

2331
01:41:39,920 --> 01:41:37,860
less less less just you know he's lives

2332
01:41:42,230 --> 01:41:39,930
in Olympia which is not too far for me

2333
01:41:44,780 --> 01:41:42,240
he's only hour-and-a-half drive away

2334
01:41:46,730 --> 01:41:44,790
from me here so I've actually been able

2335
01:41:48,140 --> 01:41:46,740
to meet less couple times so far and

2336
01:41:51,050 --> 01:41:48,150
that's been great and everybody's

2337
01:41:52,850 --> 01:41:51,060
involved in the whole line of thought of

2338
01:41:53,930 --> 01:41:52,860
Amelia Earhart like we are they've all

2339
01:41:56,990 --> 01:41:53,940
been in touch with me

2340
01:41:58,640 --> 01:41:57,000
and I just want to be someone who is who

2341
01:42:03,590 --> 01:41:58,650
is here trying to get everybody that's

2342
01:42:05,300 --> 01:42:03,600
on this same line together to pull

2343
01:42:06,800 --> 01:42:05,310
everything together and make this happen

2344
01:42:09,140 --> 01:42:06,810
I mean this is this is going to be a

2345
01:42:10,910 --> 01:42:09,150
team effort of everybody

2346
01:42:13,040 --> 01:42:10,920
that is following the truth to what

2347
01:42:15,380 --> 01:42:13,050
happened it's going to take us all yeah

2348
01:42:17,150 --> 01:42:15,390
I agree with you and I really applaud

2349
01:42:19,840 --> 01:42:17,160
that that attitude and I know that all

2350
01:42:23,420 --> 01:42:19,850
three of you have that attitude

2351
01:42:27,590 --> 01:42:23,430
well I and I want to make sure Amelia

2352
01:42:28,850 --> 01:42:27,600
Earhart's movie Earhart movie.com can

2353
01:42:30,740 --> 01:42:28,860
kind of follow a little bit of what I've

2354
01:42:33,260 --> 01:42:30,750
done merely Amelia Earhart movie comm

2355
01:42:36,110 --> 01:42:33,270
Carol Gao is one that helped me with

2356
01:42:37,760 --> 01:42:36,120
that she's the one that I was able to

2357
01:42:40,750 --> 01:42:37,770
first get a hold of one of the first

2358
01:42:43,300 --> 01:42:40,760
ones that okay I'm on the phone yet oh

2359
01:42:45,740 --> 01:42:43,310
okay oh okay

2360
01:42:47,690 --> 01:42:45,750
I don't know what that was I don't know

2361
01:42:48,740 --> 01:42:47,700
what that was either business yes that's

2362
01:42:51,980 --> 01:42:48,750
your cue

2363
01:42:54,080 --> 01:42:51,990
that's a key oh there you go well dick I

2364
01:42:56,480 --> 01:42:54,090
really appreciate so much for taking the

2365
01:42:59,630 --> 01:42:56,490
time to to be online with us tonight and

2366
01:43:01,550 --> 01:42:59,640
it's just an absolute fascinating story

2367
01:43:03,440 --> 01:43:01,560
every piece of it every piece that I

2368
01:43:05,750 --> 01:43:03,450
hear that's brand new my jaw drops a

2369
01:43:07,400 --> 01:43:05,760
little lower so it's been fascinating to

2370
01:43:08,690 --> 01:43:07,410
me you can't imagine when the old man at

2371
01:43:10,160 --> 01:43:08,700
the end of the table and I said didn't

2372
01:43:11,360 --> 01:43:10,170
Amelia Earhart land in this part of the

2373
01:43:13,760 --> 01:43:11,370
world he looked right at me says yeah

2374
01:43:16,250 --> 01:43:13,770
she landed on our island and my uncle

2375
01:43:19,370 --> 01:43:16,260
watched her for two days I looked right

2376
01:43:21,230 --> 01:43:19,380
at him like yeah right Wow

2377
01:43:23,120 --> 01:43:21,240
yeah I think there's a little bit of

2378
01:43:25,790 --> 01:43:23,130
serendipity going on there for you oh

2379
01:43:27,890 --> 01:43:25,800
that's where it started for me well Mike

2380
01:43:29,270 --> 01:43:27,900
and les who wants to go next I'll leave

2381
01:43:34,490 --> 01:43:29,280
it up to you who's going to toss the

2382
01:43:37,850 --> 01:43:34,500
coin I'll go first you like this whole

2383
01:43:40,640 --> 01:43:37,860
or Ella you have I commend you you have

2384
01:43:42,950 --> 01:43:40,650
a very very good working knowledge of

2385
01:43:45,020 --> 01:43:42,960
this Earhart mystery and I can then

2386
01:43:48,830 --> 01:43:45,030
utilize and it's spot on as I'm

2387
01:43:51,700 --> 01:43:48,840
concerned I'm a group of NASA yes as far

2388
01:43:52,910 --> 01:43:51,710
as what's going on Vicks evidence is

2389
01:43:54,950 --> 01:43:52,920
there's no

2390
01:43:56,990 --> 01:43:54,960
that's paramount to clobbering the

2391
01:43:59,390 --> 01:43:57,000
belief that Earhart was captured by the

2392
01:44:02,419 --> 01:43:59,400
Japanese there's no question to it and

2393
01:44:04,490 --> 01:44:02,429
Nick needs to determine whether in fact

2394
01:44:07,550 --> 01:44:04,500
the evidence that he has those two

2395
01:44:09,680 --> 01:44:07,560
pieces come on super plain and I think

2396
01:44:12,979 --> 01:44:09,690
we can do that I really believe that and

2397
01:44:14,810 --> 01:44:12,989
the thing that I'm so intrigued about is

2398
01:44:19,010 --> 01:44:14,820
the fact that the luggage that was found

2399
01:44:20,689 --> 01:44:19,020
on Ryan Moore 1944 you for long familiar

2400
01:44:22,580 --> 01:44:20,699
there's no question about that and I

2401
01:44:25,160 --> 01:44:22,590
have that documented in evidence that

2402
01:44:28,939 --> 01:44:25,170
was found in secret marine files and I

2403
01:44:30,950 --> 01:44:28,949
have it with me and lastly if we could

2404
01:44:33,530 --> 01:44:30,960
possibly take it from that point and

2405
01:44:36,430 --> 01:44:33,540
champa all this on pan and we unearthed

2406
01:44:39,650 --> 01:44:36,440
that gravesite and where she was buried

2407
01:44:42,410 --> 01:44:39,660
and that the bones were last removed in

2408
01:44:44,930 --> 01:44:42,420
1930 1968 that was the second time you

2409
01:44:46,880 --> 01:44:44,940
removed but there should be a few pieces

2410
01:44:48,590 --> 01:44:46,890
of small remnants of bone to the Miss

2411
01:44:53,000 --> 01:44:48,600
simply because it was a very very

2412
01:44:54,439 --> 01:44:53,010
amateur dig and maybe so loathing I got

2413
01:44:56,060 --> 01:44:54,449
it they would have possibly they got

2414
01:44:59,270 --> 01:44:56,070
that at the time there was no evidence

2415
01:45:01,610 --> 01:44:59,280
of clothing however in the original

2416
01:45:03,350 --> 01:45:01,620
digging in 1944 it was something that

2417
01:45:05,780 --> 01:45:03,360
was overlooked because of you know these

2418
01:45:08,689 --> 01:45:05,790
guys are talking from 30 years memory

2419
01:45:10,580 --> 01:45:08,699
but yes there's a chance that that could

2420
01:45:13,490 --> 01:45:10,590
occurred but if we know if it's time

2421
01:45:16,550 --> 01:45:13,500
just even a small couple pieces of bone

2422
01:45:17,930 --> 01:45:16,560
and they haven't analyzed my DNA and I'm

2423
01:45:19,250 --> 01:45:17,940
thinking about going back over there in

2424
01:45:21,680 --> 01:45:19,260
March to do just that

2425
01:45:24,260 --> 01:45:21,690
well and all of us one of us could be

2426
01:45:26,870 --> 01:45:24,270
done of course unless the publicity

2427
01:45:28,939 --> 01:45:26,880
generated by Mike's book and that's you

2428
01:45:32,330 --> 01:45:28,949
nice spot on his book is the Bible he's

2429
01:45:34,340 --> 01:45:32,340
he's a great credible job in telling

2430
01:45:36,770 --> 01:45:34,350
this story and telling it actually and

2431
01:45:39,650 --> 01:45:36,780
in an unbiased manner and I believe it

2432
01:45:42,950 --> 01:45:39,660
and with all that I think we're going to

2433
01:45:46,280 --> 01:45:42,960
solve this I really think I've just got

2434
01:45:48,229 --> 01:45:46,290
a question is is there a some kind of

2435
01:45:50,959 --> 01:45:48,239
funding organization or is there any

2436
01:45:52,820 --> 01:45:50,969
grant money even if it's small like a

2437
01:45:54,890 --> 01:45:52,830
couple of hundred thousand dollars that

2438
01:45:56,419 --> 01:45:54,900
would support some some kind of a

2439
01:46:00,560 --> 01:45:56,429
startup to go over there do what you're

2440
01:46:03,080 --> 01:46:00,570
describing I seriously thought the

2441
01:46:04,669 --> 01:46:03,090
island yes no not to my knowledge

2442
01:46:05,870 --> 01:46:04,679
anybody who's ever attempted to do

2443
01:46:06,770 --> 01:46:05,880
something so there's not a couple of

2444
01:46:09,680 --> 01:46:06,780
guys I know

2445
01:46:13,250 --> 01:46:09,690
would be a kickstart Internet side the

2446
01:46:15,560 --> 01:46:13,260
drain and the funding layoffs I thought

2447
01:46:17,300 --> 01:46:15,570
about that I thought about it all of

2448
01:46:19,460 --> 01:46:17,310
this I know the dick has spent his own

2449
01:46:21,260 --> 01:46:19,470
money on it right gone around the United

2450
01:46:23,570 --> 01:46:21,270
States interviewing a lot of old men and

2451
01:46:26,510 --> 01:46:23,580
trying to gather evidence and it's all

2452
01:46:27,740 --> 01:46:26,520
my money I've not asked tonight it's

2453
01:46:30,320 --> 01:46:27,750
something that probably we should

2454
01:46:33,170 --> 01:46:30,330
collaborate on I think Michael degree

2455
01:46:35,780 --> 01:46:33,180
event as well well in my follow-up email

2456
01:46:37,850 --> 01:46:35,790
tonight I'm on toss a couple ideas out

2457
01:46:40,760 --> 01:46:37,860
there to the three of you and we'll keep

2458
01:46:43,130 --> 01:46:40,770
in touch on that okay that sounds great

2459
01:46:45,980 --> 01:46:43,140
yeah I'm not saying I have any answers

2460
01:46:48,410 --> 01:46:45,990
but I've got all kinds of wild ideas so

2461
01:46:50,090 --> 01:46:48,420
we'll see where we wind up with it les

2462
01:46:53,570 --> 01:46:50,100
thank you so much for taking the time

2463
01:46:55,250 --> 01:46:53,580
tonight and joining us and I hope I get

2464
01:46:57,290 --> 01:46:55,260
to talk to you again before too much

2465
01:47:00,590 --> 01:46:57,300
longer and we have like a gala

2466
01:47:02,450 --> 01:47:00,600
celebration with the evidence turning

2467
01:47:06,020 --> 01:47:02,460
out to corroborate everything we've been

2468
01:47:08,720 --> 01:47:06,030
talking about thank you well oh I can I

2469
01:47:11,060 --> 01:47:08,730
can I just jump in for a second how was

2470
01:47:14,720 --> 01:47:11,070
your turn Mike it's our turn we have

2471
01:47:18,050 --> 01:47:14,730
like five minutes okay well I don't know

2472
01:47:20,210 --> 01:47:18,060
if I'm gonna hog all that but I would

2473
01:47:22,970 --> 01:47:20,220
you just ask the question about grant

2474
01:47:26,900 --> 01:47:22,980
money to find out the truth about what

2475
01:47:30,800 --> 01:47:26,910
this is anathema to the establishment

2476
01:47:34,220 --> 01:47:30,810
okay this story this is where this is

2477
01:47:37,340 --> 01:47:34,230
where my real expertise is I it's the

2478
01:47:40,250 --> 01:47:37,350
it's the way it's the cultural the

2479
01:47:43,300 --> 01:47:40,260
cultural attitude about the truth in the

2480
01:47:46,760 --> 01:47:43,310
Erhard case if the cultural attitude of

2481
01:47:49,640 --> 01:47:46,770
77 years of government propaganda was

2482
01:47:50,600 --> 01:47:49,650
not such as it is there wouldn't be a

2483
01:47:52,160 --> 01:47:50,610
story anymore

2484
01:47:54,350 --> 01:47:52,170
it would have been solved a long time

2485
01:47:57,140 --> 01:47:54,360
ago we wouldn't be sitting here talking

2486
01:47:59,660 --> 01:47:57,150
there wouldn't be people only people

2487
01:48:03,800 --> 01:47:59,670
like Fred green or Thomas Devine visit V

2488
01:48:07,550 --> 01:48:03,810
Loomis a handful of others myself doing

2489
01:48:10,400 --> 01:48:07,560
books about this subject the

2490
01:48:12,920 --> 01:48:10,410
establishment despises this story this

2491
01:48:16,160 --> 01:48:12,930
is the point of all of it okay

2492
01:48:19,700 --> 01:48:16,170
that's why les and I and dick are doing

2493
01:48:20,270 --> 01:48:19,710
what we're doing because they gored this

2494
01:48:25,640 --> 01:48:20,280
this is a

2495
01:48:28,490 --> 01:48:25,650
titled a chapter in my book the care and

2496
01:48:30,979 --> 01:48:28,500
nurture of a sacred cow the truth about

2497
01:48:34,069 --> 01:48:30,989
what happened to her remains a sacred

2498
01:48:36,859 --> 01:48:34,079
cow to this day that's the whole problem

2499
01:48:38,149 --> 01:48:36,869
I think it's get others to there's just

2500
01:48:40,609 --> 01:48:38,159
no doubt about that

2501
01:48:43,399 --> 01:48:40,619
if there was when I when I first met

2502
01:48:44,870 --> 01:48:43,409
Thomas Devine I in 1990 I said how come

2503
01:48:46,640 --> 01:48:44,880
in New York Times or Washington Post

2504
01:48:50,000 --> 01:48:46,650
everybody in the world isn't founded

2505
01:48:51,770 --> 01:48:50,010
down your door for your story I didn't

2506
01:48:53,149 --> 01:48:51,780
understand it at that time he just

2507
01:48:56,029 --> 01:48:53,159
looked at me and shook I said he didn't

2508
01:48:58,459 --> 01:48:56,039
know but I know now I learned soon

2509
01:49:01,580 --> 01:48:58,469
enough why they don't want the story

2510
01:49:03,470 --> 01:49:01,590
I've been rejected by thousands you are

2511
01:49:05,510 --> 01:49:03,480
one of the rare few people in this

2512
01:49:07,970 --> 01:49:05,520
country that will put the truth about

2513
01:49:10,819 --> 01:49:07,980
the Erhard matter on the air believe me

2514
01:49:12,260 --> 01:49:10,829
I know I have a list of them on my site

2515
01:49:14,810 --> 01:49:12,270
and there's not many and they're all

2516
01:49:17,240 --> 01:49:14,820
independent types that aren't bought and

2517
01:49:20,029 --> 01:49:17,250
sold by the networks that are owned by

2518
01:49:23,720 --> 01:49:20,039
special interests only the independent

2519
01:49:26,089 --> 01:49:23,730
people with with good courage will put

2520
01:49:28,310 --> 01:49:26,099
this story on the air I mean I could

2521
01:49:30,290 --> 01:49:28,320
tell you from now until tomorrow I could

2522
01:49:32,000 --> 01:49:30,300
tell you stories about how people have

2523
01:49:33,379 --> 01:49:32,010
told me they're interested in this oh

2524
01:49:35,569 --> 01:49:33,389
this is fascinating

2525
01:49:38,299 --> 01:49:35,579
once they thought they'd find out the

2526
01:49:41,089 --> 01:49:38,309
ugly details about what happened to her

2527
01:49:43,549 --> 01:49:41,099
on Saipan and how our government covered

2528
01:49:45,770 --> 01:49:43,559
it up and FDR's being protected to this

2529
01:49:47,810 --> 01:49:45,780
day they want nothing to do with it and

2530
01:49:49,399 --> 01:49:47,820
they're not even polite enough to tell

2531
01:49:52,040 --> 01:49:49,409
me that they just ignore me

2532
01:49:53,180 --> 01:49:52,050
they just blow me off I mean it's the

2533
01:49:55,640 --> 01:49:53,190
story of my life

2534
01:49:57,919 --> 01:49:55,650
unless it's less I don't know if I'm let

2535
01:50:01,160 --> 01:49:57,929
the secret out let's just writing a book

2536
01:50:03,709 --> 01:50:01,170
lesson it tends to have a book and when

2537
01:50:05,479 --> 01:50:03,719
his book comes out you'll find out the

2538
01:50:08,720 --> 01:50:05,489
same thing that I found out he'll

2539
01:50:10,010 --> 01:50:08,730
experience the same thing how about what

2540
01:50:13,490 --> 01:50:10,020
the office of Historical Preservation

2541
01:50:16,520 --> 01:50:13,500
did to me last week well that's a whole

2542
01:50:17,990 --> 01:50:16,530
other story - oh well the United States

2543
01:50:19,430 --> 01:50:18,000
government - the office of historical

2544
01:50:21,620 --> 01:50:19,440
preservation through the United States

2545
01:50:24,950 --> 01:50:21,630
consulate Majuro wanted to know what I'd

2546
01:50:27,319 --> 01:50:24,960
found well go ahead and tell them

2547
01:50:29,149 --> 01:50:27,329
they're a it's it's you know it's I

2548
01:50:30,979 --> 01:50:29,159
don't know that much about it yet all I

2549
01:50:33,140 --> 01:50:30,989
know is that as things started coming

2550
01:50:34,100 --> 01:50:33,150
out about my discoveries all of a sudden

2551
01:50:36,290 --> 01:50:34,110
the United States government

2552
01:50:37,970 --> 01:50:36,300
wants to find out what it is I've got I

2553
01:50:40,490 --> 01:50:37,980
didn't want to mention that unless you

2554
01:50:41,660 --> 01:50:40,500
did well you know it's just it's just

2555
01:50:43,310 --> 01:50:41,670
something that they're you know it's

2556
01:50:47,030 --> 01:50:43,320
going along the same line is what's

2557
01:50:48,950 --> 01:50:47,040
happened to you Mike yeah I mean is just

2558
01:50:51,410 --> 01:50:48,960
happening to me I am a newbie in this

2559
01:50:53,209 --> 01:50:51,420
I've said I'm just I'm just beginning to

2560
01:50:55,669 --> 01:50:53,219
figure it out but I know that it's it's

2561
01:50:58,550 --> 01:50:55,679
you know it's it's part of the story my

2562
01:51:01,550 --> 01:50:58,560
general rule is it's always better to

2563
01:51:03,560 --> 01:51:01,560
throw a bright light on things than to

2564
01:51:05,540 --> 01:51:03,570
let it sit in the shade because too many

2565
01:51:09,080 --> 01:51:05,550
times things that stay in the shadows

2566
01:51:10,459 --> 01:51:09,090
never come back out again so unless

2567
01:51:12,200 --> 01:51:10,469
you've got a real good reason to keep

2568
01:51:14,120 --> 01:51:12,210
something a secret I think it's probably

2569
01:51:16,580 --> 01:51:14,130
smart for you to bring it up indigenous

2570
01:51:18,350 --> 01:51:16,590
well the marshalese government is behind

2571
01:51:21,470 --> 01:51:18,360
me all the time they know that I'm doing

2572
01:51:25,580 --> 01:51:21,480
this for them and they are standing

2573
01:51:27,080 --> 01:51:25,590
behind me solidly well I can tell you a

2574
01:51:29,930 --> 01:51:27,090
lot of secret in the Marshall Islands

2575
01:51:33,169 --> 01:51:29,940
they don't answer it's not they have

2576
01:51:36,620 --> 01:51:33,179
dance commemorating it for good that's

2577
01:51:38,450 --> 01:51:36,630
right and as president uh Christopher

2578
01:51:39,740 --> 01:51:38,460
Lok who's the current president now I've

2579
01:51:42,020 --> 01:51:39,750
worked with him on it he knows what's

2580
01:51:44,060 --> 01:51:42,030
going on he's a great guy

2581
01:51:46,280 --> 01:51:44,070
I'm going to have to step in my

2582
01:51:50,240 --> 01:51:46,290
producers just told me we are flat out

2583
01:51:53,870 --> 01:51:50,250
of time so I hate it but I mean I think

2584
01:51:55,729 --> 01:51:53,880
that's probably a compliment considering

2585
01:51:57,430 --> 01:51:55,739
I don't think anybody stopped to take a

2586
01:52:01,459 --> 01:51:57,440
really deep breath since we started

2587
01:52:03,680 --> 01:52:01,469
everybody be sure to join us next week

2588
01:52:06,470 --> 01:52:03,690
dr. Erin Judkins is going to be here I'm

2589
01:52:08,810 --> 01:52:06,480
not sure who his guest is Jon Capello

2590
01:52:10,580 --> 01:52:08,820
will be here on the 29th with the vedic

2591
01:52:14,030 --> 01:52:10,590
astrologer talking about what's coming

2592
01:52:15,890 --> 01:52:14,040
up in 2015 and check our schedule on

2593
01:52:17,990 --> 01:52:15,900
epic voyageurs comm if you want to see

2594
01:52:21,470 --> 01:52:18,000
what else is coming up thank you again

2595
01:52:24,080 --> 01:52:21,480
less and dick and mike and be looking at

2596
01:52:26,149 --> 01:52:24,090
your hearing more from you and everybody

2597
01:52:27,620 --> 01:52:26,159
out there stick with us next week we'll